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Can't you just right click?

lapcatsoftware.com

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Re: Can't you just right click?

#91

Post by smnrchrds »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #51
aaomidi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any open source developer? Do you know how much $100 is in Iran?

I just looked it up, and it seems like $100 is worth less than half a week of an average developers salary in Iran.

1. As a part of US's sanctions against Iran, Apple does not do business with Iran, period. Neither does Google. That's why people install Cafe Bazaar (https://cafebazaar.ir/), and alternative app store, on their Android phones the moment they get them—they cannot install apps from the official Play Store, nor can Iranian developers upload their apps there. The same is true of App Store of course, and there is little recourse there.

2. Your information regarding salary seems terribly outdated. There has been several sudden and dramatic losses of purchasing power and reduction in exchange rate for Iranian Rial, cumulatively by a factor of more than 7, during the past year. At the current exchange rate of ~220,000 IRR to 1 USD, the monthly salary of an Iranian developer would be around ~160 USD a month. Breaking the 100MM IRR/~454 USD barrier would be difficult for most developers. So even if the sanctions were lifted tomorrow, only large corporations would be willing to spend 100 USD at the current exchange rate, not independent developers.

Source regarding salary [in Farsi]: https://jadi.net/2020/02/programmers-97-stats/

Re: Can't you just right click?

#92

Post by xenadu02 »

badsectoracula wrote: post #83
cuddlybacon wrote: post #6

This feature is at about the right spot for me. It is still convenient enough for me to run software I want that isn't signed, but sufficiently obtuse that neither of my parents have figured it out. Given they are both prone to running any executable that any website tells them to download and run, this feature has probably save me several dozen hours of fixing their computers.

Well, yes, until you get to the point where (as the article shows) you cannot run unsigned applications on Apple Silicon. How much more slippery does this slope needs to get?

It is important to understand what this requirement is and isn't. The requirement on Apple Silicon is only that the binary be codesigned. That ensures the binary is unmodified when it is encountered again later. You do not need an Apple-approved signing key for this. Ad-hoc signing works just fine.

Apple's new linker automatically adds an ad-hoc signature to ensure people building outside Xcode don't experience any disruptions as part of this new requirement.

This requirement does not change GateKeeper or Notarization.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#93

Post by badsectoracula »

white-flame wrote: post #10

The fact that the standard model of computing is that applications are opaque machine code blobs that can access everything in your user permission space is the core problem in privacy and malware. Applications should see nothing but their executable jail, and whatever was intentionally allowed to them by the user (eg, Open file dialog giving the application an opaque file handle, etc, not carte blanche access to the…

This works for some type of software, but not all type of software. For example a file server or a file manager wont work. A VCS client wont work. A game engine that needs to keep track of imported resources (especially when you want automatic imports when the file is saved via a 3rd party tool - e.g. saving a model on Blender or a texture on Krita causes an automatic reimport/convert to the engine's format). Basically any sort of content management software that doesn't provide everything itself but relies on 3rd party tools already installed on the user's machine wont work.

Software like clipboard managers also wont work. Screen sharing and remote desktop software similarly wont work. Screencast software wont work. Hotkeys software wont work. Most desktop automation software wont work.

I could go on and start looking at what i have installed to extend this list (i'm sure most of the software i have on my PC wont work), but i guess you get the idea. Almost everything that doesn't fit in the media consumption model that you'll often find on a phone or a tablet wont work (and amusingly enough, at least on my Android, stuff like a file server does work, though i've heard Google wants to remove that functionality).

Re: Can't you just right click?

#94

Post by saagarjha »

badsectoracula wrote: post #83
cuddlybacon wrote: post #6

This feature is at about the right spot for me. It is still convenient enough for me to run software I want that isn't signed, but sufficiently obtuse that neither of my parents have figured it out. Given they are both prone to running any executable that any website tells them to download and run, this feature has probably save me several dozen hours of fixing their computers.

Well, yes, until you get to the point where (as the article shows) you cannot run unsigned applications on Apple Silicon. How much more slippery does this slope needs to get?

To be clear, this just means all binaries need codesign --sign - run on them before they will run. You don't need to pay to do this, so it's a minor annoyance rather than Apple centralizing control of app distribution.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#95

Post by LeanderK »

koyote wrote: post #44
cuddlybacon wrote: post #6

This feature is at about the right spot for me. It is still convenient enough for me to run software I want that isn't signed, but sufficiently obtuse that neither of my parents have figured it out. Given they are both prone to running any executable that any website tells them to download and run, this feature has probably save me several dozen hours of fixing their computers.

As someone whose elderly parents run Windows and have never run 'any executable that any website tells them to download', and I myself have not seen a website that gives me a random executable in over a decade: Out of curiosity, how often do your parents encounter the dialog in the article?

I really don't know how they end up with this, but my grandparents run windows and regularly have some kind of malicious advertisement installed. It's a not easy to keep their computers clean.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#96

Post by CamperBob2 »

saagarjha wrote: post #94
badsectoracula wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, until you get to the point where (as the article shows) you cannot run unsigned applications on Apple Silicon. How much more slippery does this slope needs to get?

To be clear, this just means all binaries need codesign --sign - run on them before they will run. You don't need to pay to do this, so it's a minor annoyance rather than Apple centralizing control of app distribution.

Why wouldn't a malware author just... do that?

Re: Can't you just right click?

#97

Post by saagarjha »

badsectoracula wrote: post #85
saagarjha wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would generally like my open-source software not not be marked as malware.

I would generally like my software, regardless of it is open source or not, not be marked as malware when it is not malware.

Sure, but I picked that specifically because it seemed to be what the parent comment was talking about.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#98

Post by ttys000 »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #3

This behavior frustrates me, as a seasoned (=old) Mac user, but I am simultaneously quite grateful for it existing on my parents Macs. It would be nice if there was a Sys Prefs option to add a "run anyway" button to the initial prompt. It wouldn't even need to be on by default. Just give me the option.

If you want your computer back, use this to disable the protections. In the system preferences, a new option is enabled under the security section, "Allow apps downloaded from: Anywhere"

> sudo spctl --master-disable

> sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.security GKAutoRearm -bool false

> :> ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.LaunchServices.QuarantineEventsV2

> sudo chflags simmutable ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.LaunchServices.QuarantineEventsV2

You may need to disable system integrity protection to do this

> csrutil disable

If you know what you're doing, like probably everyone here, you don't need any of this junk. I didn't need it in 1998, and I don't need it now either.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#99

Post by unlog »

How do you ad-hoc from windows? I run into this just yesterday and had to explain people to CTRL+CLICK. I'm not planning to give apple anything and the users already know that. Whats funny is that on windows you can also get an app signed via a third party(not sure if this applies this day) and avoid this kind of scary dialogues.. just because you paid someone.

Re: Can't you just right click?

#100

Post by PandaHug »

kelnos wrote: post #64
FreakyT wrote: post #7

I still believe that Gatekeeper is a blatant cash grab and not a legitimate security feature. $100/year to avoid a scary warning about how your app is definitely a virus? It's like a protection racket.

It's hard to believe that this would be a cash grab. Even if there are 1M developers in the world, that's only $100M, which should not be worth the friction and cost to implement and maintain this scheme. Consider that Apple's most recent quarterly revenue was just under $60B. Apple made $260B in all of 2019; $100M is not even four hundredths of a percent. Developer time to build out the signing and notarization feat…

Not exactly how it works though, in a corporation as big as Apple each business unit has it's own budget and profit/loss margins. Apple is simply too big and complex for someone or a group of someones to look at it in the way you are describing.

So while $100M might not look like a ton to Apple as a hole, it might look like a lot to the business unit responsible for apps on macOS

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