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Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

bath.ac.uk

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Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#111

Post by Lammy »

jdietrich wrote: post #53
Romanulus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ouch... that's kind of bleakly sad. Reminds me of the video of a very inebriated old Polish man doing a breathalizer test who mistakenly takes a swig of the device (instead of blowing into it) and then promptly falling over. We are drunk on information.

>Ouch... that's kind of bleakly sad. Early versions of iOS were rife with skeuomorphism. Is it sad that iBooks displayed your books on a wooden shelf and played page-turn animations that look like paper, or is it just an application of existing skills and knowledge to a different technology? Paper books are obsolete. Some people think that they aren't obsolete because they're using tiny low-res monitors or don't know…

I think paper books are not obsolete because I don’t want to live in a future where every copy of a certain piece of information can disappear or be rewritten instantly.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#112

Post by ksdale »

jiofih wrote: post #104
ksdale wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you come out of chess with? I've spent a lot of time playing computer games, they sparked a love of history, geography, technology, new kinds of music, they've informed my taste and sense of humor, and helped me be more circumspect when it comes to life "strategy". Without the love of history, I never would have gotten into chess, either, but it is something I enjoy. At any given time, it would have looked an…

I think you missed the point here. It is not about the benefits of chess or minecraft, but the fact that he started sinking all of his available time into it, and hence didn’t participate in other activities anymore (such as playing chess). Games and videos are notoriously addictive.

I understand that, I just don't think it's a problem. I've spent my life being obsessed with things. Sometimes the obsession lasts a few years, sometimes it lasts a few days, and the sum of being focused on one thing to the exclusion of all else is being a very well-rounded person.

Presumably the nephew is still a child, and presumably he will move on to other things as he gets older.

I'll eat my words if he ends up a 60 year old who regrets spending his life playing Minecraft. Then again, if he is a 60 year old who was productive and happy and spent his free time playing Minecraft without regret, that would also be fine, no?

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#113

Post by plutonorm »

Spooky23 wrote: post #59
crmrc114 wrote: post #14

So, per this page: "The study followed them over the next 2.5 years, bringing them into the lab at 18 months and 3.5 years. At the 18-month and 3.5-year visits, toddlers took part in a computer task in which they were trained to search for a red apple amongst a varying number of either blue apples (easy search), or blue apples and red apple slices (difficult search). An eye tracker monitored their gaze and visually r…

The same sort of stuff was said about the 80s kids in my cohort because we were "latchkey" kids and watching lots of TV. It was bullshit then and bullshit now. I don't put much stock in intelligence assessments. There's no real standards around the exams. My school placed you in cohorts based on IQ, and it was pretty obvious that the scoring system was measuring something other than your innate ability. My dad worked…

God damn it. I've been searching for a way to loaf of my very high IQ my whole life. I wish someone had told me this 30 years ago lol. Join the civil service.

And no, high iq is not particularly useful in other areas, not when I don't have the ability to work hard on anything except what I'm actually interested in. So formal education was painful.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#114

Post by orev »

ksdale wrote: post #83
finaliteration wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent myself who is guilty of this from time to time, I think it’s easy to judge those moments without seeing the full picture. Nowadays parents are expected to attend to kids basically 24/7 and keep them engaged, etc,. Just because you saw that happen at breakfast doesn’t mean it was happening all day, every day. Maybe they were out visiting museums or nature parks for the rest of the day. There are mornings w…

People shake their heads when the kids watch a tablet during breakfast, they'd also shake their heads if the child misbehaved and disrupted their own breakfast. Sometimes there's not a third option. Most parents would be delighted if they could simply ask their children to be well-behaved and eat in a crowded public space.

I don’t think people really shake their heads at kids disrupting meals (unless it’s really egregious). If a kid screams or something, people naturally look, but you don’t know what they’re thinking. They could just be wondering what’s going on, or remembering their life when they had kids that age. You have no idea. Mostly I would think that the parents are doing their best and they have enough to deal with without me also passing judgment.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#115

Post by grvdrm »

turtlebits wrote: post #42
lordnacho wrote: post #17

One interesting thing I noticed is my kids who have grown up with touchscreens think that everything is a touchscreen. One of them even tried to swipe one of those adverts that's made of a big flatscreen. What confuses them is that some flatscreens aren't touchscreens, eg my macbook, while most of the smaller screens like phones and tablets are. Overall I'd say it's pretty hard to stay conservative about exposing the…

The problem is that parents are using screen time as a nanny, and are training their kids to rely on them as such. IMO, kids need to be taught self-control and have the ability to entertain themselves before screens are introduced. Toddler age is definitely too early, I am in the opinion that as little as necessary until it starts to be required in school. My 2nd grader knows that screens are useful and has seen limi…

+1 to this. I saw a fellow parent dump their kid on an iPad whenever he fussed, regularly, for months. Seemed like he learned that he could whine to get what he wanted (the iPad) rather than learning how to play/interact elsewhere. All parents are guilty of something like this, but I remain firmly in the camp of not handing over the device just because my kid wants or whines for it.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#116

Post by fma »

GuB-42 wrote: post #66
crmrc114 wrote: post #14

So, per this page: "The study followed them over the next 2.5 years, bringing them into the lab at 18 months and 3.5 years. At the 18-month and 3.5-year visits, toddlers took part in a computer task in which they were trained to search for a red apple amongst a varying number of either blue apples (easy search), or blue apples and red apple slices (difficult search). An eye tracker monitored their gaze and visually r…

> No discussion as to any other effect of screen use. That's not what the study is about. The study was about a particular effect, and they published their conclusions. The need for such a study can be debated but there is a difference between "common sense" and a proper peer-reviewed study. And to be published by what looks like a serious journal, I guess it wasn't so obvious to experts. I am fed up with articles th…

My interpretation of the summary was that the researchers will follow the same kids later in life and see the impact. They are just reporting the current results. Per the article

"What we need to know next is whether this attention difference is advantageous or detrimental to their everyday life."

A lot of the comments on HN imply that the researches found a negative effect, when they did not conclude that.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#117

Post by ordu »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #29
crmrc114 wrote: post #14

So, per this page: "The study followed them over the next 2.5 years, bringing them into the lab at 18 months and 3.5 years. At the 18-month and 3.5-year visits, toddlers took part in a computer task in which they were trained to search for a red apple amongst a varying number of either blue apples (easy search), or blue apples and red apple slices (difficult search). An eye tracker monitored their gaze and visually r…

Your "better" study is not an experiment and its conclusions are not supported by empirical evidence. If it were true that usage of touchscreens cause lower intelligence test scores, we would have seen this show up as a population-wide reduction in scores as touchscreens became widely available. No such effect can be observed. Instead, the children who were neglected with random household items to play with by themse…

> Your "better" study is not an experiment

Strictly speaking, the discussed research of toddlers using touchscreens is not an experiment also. In experimental setup researcher must control independant variable (touchscreen use). For this research it would mean to get a group of toddlers, split them randomly into two groups, give touchscreens to one group and some "placebo" to other. Researchers didn't do that, they split toddlers into two groups on the ground of the existing touchscreen use. So what they did is called a "correlational research", not an "experiment".

Correlation doesn't allow to speak about casuality. Maybe children ability to a visual search drive them to use touchscreens. Maybe touchscreens teach them to search. Maybe some other factor (like parenting style, or family income) teach them to love touchscreens and to effectively search for visual stimuli.

To be frank, I do not like this reseach much. It is correlational reseach, and there were no attempts to exclude interfering variables: if toddler used touchscreen more, than he/she would be better at tasks on a screen, wouldn't he/she?

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#118

Post by boweryking »

nelaboras wrote: post #25
crmrc114 wrote: post #14

So, per this page: "The study followed them over the next 2.5 years, bringing them into the lab at 18 months and 3.5 years. At the 18-month and 3.5-year visits, toddlers took part in a computer task in which they were trained to search for a red apple amongst a varying number of either blue apples (easy search), or blue apples and red apple slices (difficult search). An eye tracker monitored their gaze and visually r…

In addition there is a key qualitative element: are all uses equal? Is watching Teletubbies or Paw Patrol equal to nature documentaries? Is playing addictive repetitive games different than those solving puzzles or following a story? Is videoconferencing with grandma the same or better or worse as doing a math training game? The key issue often is the parents' role and guidance. Let your kid aimlessly click through Y…

From watching friends and family in the last ten years, I would like to add economical class and education level (maybe what we would call cultural capital) as one factor to this.

It might sound a bit fascist, but factors that is commonly questioned and scorned nowadays such as screen time, sugar intake, lack of outdoors activity and not wearing bike helmets are more common among families with generally lower status. The more upper middle class a family gets, the more important it seems to be to avoid doing harm to our children. Maybe mostly to save face among our peers?

My point is that kids with more screen time may overlap with not being read to as much, not given as much attention to tell their family about their thoughts, not challenged to exercise their ability to focus, and so on. In a very general sense.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#119

Post by ksdale »

orev wrote: post #114
ksdale wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People shake their heads when the kids watch a tablet during breakfast, they'd also shake their heads if the child misbehaved and disrupted their own breakfast. Sometimes there's not a third option. Most parents would be delighted if they could simply ask their children to be well-behaved and eat in a crowded public space.

I don’t think people really shake their heads at kids disrupting meals (unless it’s really egregious). If a kid screams or something, people naturally look, but you don’t know what they’re thinking. They could just be wondering what’s going on, or remembering their life when they had kids that age. You have no idea. Mostly I would think that the parents are doing their best and they have enough to deal with without m…

For sure, I think everyone who's had kids understands, and a lot of people who haven't also understand. But I've read plenty of comments like the one above that refer to the disruption rather than the placation, and I think people have different definitions of egregious, as well.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#120

Post by boublepop »

crmrc114 wrote: post #14

So, per this page: "The study followed them over the next 2.5 years, bringing them into the lab at 18 months and 3.5 years. At the 18-month and 3.5-year visits, toddlers took part in a computer task in which they were trained to search for a red apple amongst a varying number of either blue apples (easy search), or blue apples and red apple slices (difficult search). An eye tracker monitored their gaze and visually r…

Sooo you’re telling me that if I give my toddler a pain brush he’ll be the next davinci? Could you follow up with some more specific direction? I mean if I want to raise a pop-star does the microphone need to be plugged in or does using it like a lightsaber also get them closer to the target?

Sorry for being silly in my reply, but the reason we have studies confirming simple “obvious” to you correlations is that we can’t just rely on random peoples intuition without proof. Even simple things need to be studied and sometimes our expectations are broken and we discover that no, everything isn’t made up of combinations of earth, water, fire and wind, even though that was what was “obvious” to the smartest elders of all the lands.

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