Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences • Hacker News Board

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#101

Post by kazinator » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

crmrc114 wrote: post #14

So, per this page: "The study followed them over the next 2.5 years, bringing them into the lab at 18 months and 3.5 years. At the 18-month and 3.5-year visits, toddlers took part in a computer task in which they were trained to search for a red apple amongst a varying number of either blue apples (easy search), or blue apples and red apple slices (difficult search). An eye tracker monitored their gaze and visually r…

> Why did this need study?

The answer is probably the usual: money.

Someone got a "use it or lose it" budget.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#102

Post by kazinator » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

ksdale wrote: post #96

grugagag wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chess is a game based on simple rules that yields complexity but i can't say it is “better” than Minecraft, it’s just something else. Minecraft is not a bad thing, what is bad is sinking countless hours only in this game! What do you come out of it with? Chess is a game that has a defined purpose. It has a beginning, a middle game and an endgame. One can learn openings, strategies, concentration etc. That translates…

What do you come out of chess with? I've spent a lot of time playing computer games, they sparked a love of history, geography, technology, new kinds of music, they've informed my taste and sense of humor, and helped me be more circumspect when it comes to life "strategy". Without the love of history, I never would have gotten into chess, either, but it is something I enjoy. At any given time, it would have looked an…

I suspect that chess will hone your ability to analyze, categorize and prioritize the cases occurring in a complex situation that has many possibilities. Poor case analysis in chess leads to easy defeat.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#103

Post by godot » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

There's already a lot of discussions re: other aspects of screen time here, so I'd just like to touch on exactly what is on this study -- ability to search for things faster after "screen training". (like faster reflexes)

Before anyone takes this study and says "so screen time has positive influence" and gives it to their 1 year-old, I'd like to give an anecdote from my own experience. I grew up in the 80s and my family was one of the earliest to own an NES. According to my parents, I started playing the NES when I was 4 or 5. I have some of the fastest reflexes (when it comes to video games or similar activities) of any friends I know; and I played in fighting games tournaments in college. This is a genre of competitive games where millisecond-reflexes can determine the outcome of the game. (of course, I was a low tier tournament player and there are tons of world class players way better and faster than me)

I'd say my takeaway is that sure, maybe that kind of "screen training" helps with reflexes and attention, but you don't have to start that early. If you start at 5 years old instead of 1 year old, you might just get as much of the benefits, without the down sides of vision problems etc. that comes with having screen time too early.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#104

Post by jiofih » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

ksdale wrote: post #96

grugagag wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chess is a game based on simple rules that yields complexity but i can't say it is “better” than Minecraft, it’s just something else. Minecraft is not a bad thing, what is bad is sinking countless hours only in this game! What do you come out of it with? Chess is a game that has a defined purpose. It has a beginning, a middle game and an endgame. One can learn openings, strategies, concentration etc. That translates…

What do you come out of chess with? I've spent a lot of time playing computer games, they sparked a love of history, geography, technology, new kinds of music, they've informed my taste and sense of humor, and helped me be more circumspect when it comes to life "strategy". Without the love of history, I never would have gotten into chess, either, but it is something I enjoy. At any given time, it would have looked an…

I think you missed the point here. It is not about the benefits of chess or minecraft, but the fact that he started sinking all of his available time into it, and hence didn’t participate in other activities anymore (such as playing chess). Games and videos are notoriously addictive.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#105

Post by csense » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

elteto wrote: post #97

scaryclam wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen exactly this with some friends and their kids. If they're at a more adult place to eat the kids are allowed to watch cartoons so they don't get bored and start wanting to leave before the meal's even started. The rest of the time they're limited in their screen time, read books with their parents and go out to all sorts of fun places like nature parks etc. It's lazy to judge parents just because you see a 3…

We improved this by always carrying color pens and a minimal playdoh set (couple of colors and tools). First they paint, then they do playdoh, and then, if the meal isn’t over they watch cartoons. We have almost completely eliminated devices with this tactic because by the time they are done with those two the meal is almost over. And if it isn’t then we also sometimes tell them that they must just wait or engage in…

When I was a kid, we carried a game system to restaurants and we usually played while waiting for the meal to arrive.

The game system was a notepad and pen. The game selection included Hangman, Tic-Tac-Toe, and dots-and-boxes.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#106

Post by asdff » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

closetohome wrote: post #99

enobrev wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why it's sad. Isn't it an attempt at approaching new things with an understanding of previous interactions? Say you give a child a maraca, and s/he learns that s/he can shake the maraca to make noise. Then you hand a child a block, s/he is going to shake the block to see if it makes noise. The interesting bit and teachable moment is that these things have different features and properties and we in…

Exactly. The counterpart to this is walking up to a touchscreen credit card reader ten years ago and going "uhh..." while looking for physical buttons to push.

ten years ago they all had an obvious stylus that hadn't been ripped off the machine yet

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#107

Post by asdff » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

wiradikusuma wrote: post #74

I notice a common theme in the comments: We're tech people (some even want high engagements for their apps) yet we're concerned of our kids' screen time. I'm in the same boat. Maybe because we're from generation(s) where screen is unnatural (except TV) and we want our kids to have the same positive, "natural", experience like ours. But I wonder a few generations forward, maybe the future parents will not have the sam…

I want to limit my child's screen time explicitly because my screen time was limitless, and I blew it doing dumb things and feeling more and more isolated rather than more heavily pursuing real life interests and interpersonal relationships. Excess screen time lost me a decade of guitar playing that I can never get back. I don't want my child to suffer the same crushing self realization at 25 years old.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#108

Post by pak9rabid » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 6:26 PM UTC

dx87 wrote: post #31

lordnacho wrote: post #17

One interesting thing I noticed is my kids who have grown up with touchscreens think that everything is a touchscreen. One of them even tried to swipe one of those adverts that's made of a big flatscreen. What confuses them is that some flatscreens aren't touchscreens, eg my macbook, while most of the smaller screens like phones and tablets are. Overall I'd say it's pretty hard to stay conservative about exposing the…

> One interesting thing I noticed is my kids who have grown up with touchscreens think that everything is a touchscreen I've talked to teachers who said that they've started seeing young children with picture books doing the zoom in/out pinching motion on pages.

lol, I find myself doing this sometimes when looking through pages in regular magazines. It's almost like it's just become hardwired as an instinct.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#109

Post by novok » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

turtlebits wrote: post #42

lordnacho wrote: post #17

One interesting thing I noticed is my kids who have grown up with touchscreens think that everything is a touchscreen. One of them even tried to swipe one of those adverts that's made of a big flatscreen. What confuses them is that some flatscreens aren't touchscreens, eg my macbook, while most of the smaller screens like phones and tablets are. Overall I'd say it's pretty hard to stay conservative about exposing the…

The problem is that parents are using screen time as a nanny, and are training their kids to rely on them as such. IMO, kids need to be taught self-control and have the ability to entertain themselves before screens are introduced. Toddler age is definitely too early, I am in the opinion that as little as necessary until it starts to be required in school. My 2nd grader knows that screens are useful and has seen limi…

The automated nanny of the past was other kids in the neighbourhood, but due to laws and a culture of helicopter parenting that developed during the 80s/90s, kids are basically forbidden from playing by themselves with local kids unless they are literally next door.

Parenting is more work today than it used to be. In the past you sent out your kids to the local neighborhood all day, they came back to fix boo-boos and food and then you tucked them in to sleep. Sometimes you had family game nights or similar or everyone would watch TV / listen to the radio together.

Now they must have adult eyes on them 24/7 lest you get CPS called on you.

Re: Toddlers who use touchscreens show attention differences

#110

Post by dcolkitt » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

One important thing to keep in mind with any headline like this: twin studies have consistently shown that family environment contributes a negligible component to the cross-sectional variation of long-term adult outcomes.

Consider any sort of child-rearing decision. In this case letting your toddler use an iPad or not. Is it within the realm of normal variation you'd find between families? In this case, yes: some families let kids have a lot of screen time, and some families strictly limit screen time.

Well then, it almost certainly will have essentially zero impact on long-term adult outcomes. It may have a transitory short-term impact. Analogously, reading to kids may lead to learning to read at an earlier age. But twin studies tell us that by adulthood, the effect regresses to the mean. I.e. reading to kids a lot won't give them higher reading comprehension when they grow up.