Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition • Hacker News Board

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#251

Post by NationalPark » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

dx87 wrote: post #109

henriquez wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An extension of this is the notion of emergency authorities and people’s perception of the weight they carry. An emergency is an emergent situation, which must be new, evolving, and carry the risk of serious harm. Emergency orders are based upon the idea that executive authority must be wielded to quickly mitigate an emergency situation. But a key attribute of an emergency (by definition) is “new” - if emergency powe…

> Now we have a lot of governors issuing decrees based on emergency authorities that they’ve been using for six months. This is quite simply a conflict with our basic notion of democracy. We do not have rulers, yet our governors are issuing rules purportedly carrying the weight of law with no oversight from legislature. That was my biggest issue with the whole situation in the USA. All of these emergency measures wer…

Is that actually true? My state has well defined phases of reopening based on infection rates, and I searched for a handful of random states across the political spectrum and found similar plans in place.

I don't really buy the power grab angle here. Most of the flack the federal government got was for explicitly _not_ doing any country-wide coordination or restriction. "Leave it to the governors". And it's hard not to find the "assault on freedom" angle disingenuous when it comes primarily from the socially conservative parts of the country that have historically worked to constrain individual rights.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#252

Post by milesvp » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #138

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on HN it is common practice to downvote when you do not agree with someone, but don't have any new information to add that is worthy of a comment. So basically don't worry about votes. If you start getting flagged that is a different story.

I appreciate the advice! I've made peace with HN's unexplained downvotes in general. Still, I'm trying hard to improve my communication style, so any feedback I can get regarding bad/good tone in my comments is super helpful.

I suspect the downvotes are related to the comment to report. HN tends to lean anti authoritarian, so the idea of reporting someone doesn’t tend to sit well here.

I’m on the fence with something like this. Covid-19 isn’t turning out to be nearly as scary as it looked like it might be in December (at least based on rumors coming out of wuhan). I still feel like there’s information at a high level (security clearance type stuff) that we don’t get to see, and so have to assume the stay stay at home orders are still founded.

That said, people in the US can only maintain this type of social distancing so long. A lot of people are reaching a breaking point. And if some speakeasy gyms help prevent a massive ‘fuck it’ style rave, then it might be a lesser of 2 evils kind of thing.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#253

Post by gowld » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #48

Ansil849 wrote: post #29

This seems incredibly dangerous. Are the speakeasy gyms requiring negative COVID tests? Are they doing temperature screenings upon entry? How diligently are they sanitizing equipment? How well ventilated are these various areas? Why are people ignoring all of these risks, what kind of threat model do they have?

You don't have to go if you don't want to. Surely your indignation would be better directed at employers, schools and others who are requiring in-person attendance.

Time to update the old "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose" to "Your right to spittke ends at my nose".

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#254

Post by squeaky-clean » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

sushshshsh wrote: post #213

reaperducer wrote: post #63

It's not just gyms. It's underground bars, hair salons, hot stone yoga joints, and all kinds of things. While the hair salons were closed, my wife's hairdresser was texting her every three days to get her into her underground makeshift totally illegal hair place. And slightly realated, quarantines don't work when people aren't actually quarantined. There was an article in the newspaper last week or the week before ab…

"Totally illegal underground makeshift hair place" I'm confused, if the participants wear a mask, will the virus be transmitted or not?

It's not a binary answer. It may be transmitted but the odds are much lower than without masks.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#255

Post by HarryHirsch » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #180

henriquez wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An extension of this is the notion of emergency authorities and people’s perception of the weight they carry. An emergency is an emergent situation, which must be new, evolving, and carry the risk of serious harm. Emergency orders are based upon the idea that executive authority must be wielded to quickly mitigate an emergency situation. But a key attribute of an emergency (by definition) is “new” - if emergency powe…

Covid strikes me as a unique situation that doesn't come up that often. It is a longer term threat than most "emergencies", but still fundamentally a temporary concern. One way or another, it will be resolved within a few years (hopefully sooner); and the facts on the ground still change relatively quickly. It may last for a longer term than most emergencies; but still operates on a smaller timeline than legislatures…

Covid strikes me as a unique situation that doesn't come up that often. It is a longer term threat than most "emergencies", but still fundamentally a temporary concern.

Right now it's unclear if COVID-19 will behave like the 1918-19 Spanish flu and disappear after Winter 2021 because most everyone subceptible will have gotten it, or of it will be more like Picardy Fever, which hung around for two centuries.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#256

Post by Ansil849 » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

pyronik19 wrote: post #243

elliekelly wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd love to see you try and add all that up in micromorts of personal risk and show me that it's actually a bad rational decision. Isn't that the whole reason public health is necessary? Because a large group of individuals making rational health decisions alone can, collectively, make poor health decisions for the group? It's kind of like polluting or littering. Yes it's perfectly rational for me to throw my trash…

I'd argue that the insistence of public policy to impose such draconian limitations on individual rights has a larger negative health and well being outcomes, but we have made the cost collectively born so we are all miserable, broke, and in bad health to prevent to save a marginal number of people who were already in poor health status. We are practicing socialism but applied to health and wellbeing, with the same r…

> the insistence of public policy to impose such draconian limitations on individual rights

If people gave a damn about other people, they would be following best practices voluntarily, which would make policy limitations a moot point. But they do not, so here we are.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#257

Post by squeaky-clean » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

Ansil849 wrote: post #29

This seems incredibly dangerous. Are the speakeasy gyms requiring negative COVID tests? Are they doing temperature screenings upon entry? How diligently are they sanitizing equipment? How well ventilated are these various areas? Why are people ignoring all of these risks, what kind of threat model do they have?

Just turn on showdead in your HN settings and look at how many deniers are in this very thread.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#258

Post by seppin » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

sushshshsh wrote: post #213

reaperducer wrote: post #63

It's not just gyms. It's underground bars, hair salons, hot stone yoga joints, and all kinds of things. While the hair salons were closed, my wife's hairdresser was texting her every three days to get her into her underground makeshift totally illegal hair place. And slightly realated, quarantines don't work when people aren't actually quarantined. There was an article in the newspaper last week or the week before ab…

"Totally illegal underground makeshift hair place" I'm confused, if the participants wear a mask, will the virus be transmitted or not?

> I'm confused, if the participants wear a mask, will the virus be transmitted or not?

Well, if it's an illegal place what are the odds they follow CDC protocol?

Just open things up with strict masks / disinfectant / distancing rules and heavy fines for violators.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#259

Post by groundfallbroke » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

bityard wrote: post #224

sushshshsh wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the landlord still expects rent to be due.

That's because the bank still expects the mortgage to be paid.

That’s because pensioners and investors expect to be paid their due.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#260

Post by squeaky-clean » Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #48

Ansil849 wrote: post #29

This seems incredibly dangerous. Are the speakeasy gyms requiring negative COVID tests? Are they doing temperature screenings upon entry? How diligently are they sanitizing equipment? How well ventilated are these various areas? Why are people ignoring all of these risks, what kind of threat model do they have?

You don't have to go if you don't want to. Surely your indignation would be better directed at employers, schools and others who are requiring in-person attendance.

I'm okay with this answer as long as the people who go to the gym aren't allowed in the grocery store, bank, on public transport.... Because I do have to go there whether I want to or not. Give any gym-goer a 2 week temporary tattoo on their forehead so I know to avoid them. Then we're cool.