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How can Wall Street be so healthy when Main Street isn’t?

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Re: How can Wall Street be so healthy when Main Street isn’t?

#21

Easy Congress put on bandannas and robbed the tax payers of about $18,000 each. Congress then turned around and gave taxpayers $1,200 each, of their own money, that total amount can be doubled that to account for the temporary unemployment benefits increase. The rest of the taxpayer money went to the FED so they will guarantee the prices of shit stock...the market can't lower because as many rich CEOs and investors c…

> Congress put on bandannas and robbed the tax payers of about $18,000 each.

On average, sure. But people who don’t earn much money aren’t going to be responsible for that bill because they pay no (or almost no) income tax.

Re: How can Wall Street be so healthy when Main Street isn’t?

#22
post #12

Where else are you gonna put your money? Stable governments are paying ~0 or negative interest. I'm actually asking, right now I'm just paying off debt but would be curious what people think. If I didn't have the debt I'd probably buy equities (index fund, etc.) like everoyne else.

Commodities could be another option. I think gold and silver aren't great choices right now, but maybe platinum is. Along this same line, real estate has real value to it.

Other articles are saying that the US is sitting on a foreclosure timebomb. Not sure if real estate is safer than index funds right now..

Re: How can Wall Street be so healthy when Main Street isn’t?

#23
post #2

Personal take: A subset of "Main Street" is unhealthy not the entire country. Most things are not closed anymore and the stock market is propped up by tech stocks that saw little slow down due to COVID. It's weird situation because I'd be willing to bet that the people who own stocks are simply not the one that have been laid off.

And if all businesses are hit by hard economic times, should all stocks go down? Wouldn't that mean that people are selling stocks and not buying other stocks? I don't think modern investors just don't-buy-stocks unless they need the money for something else. They invest in something . And if everything is doing poorly, that means the market doesn't change.

I wouldn't assume everything is doing poorly. There are big winners and big losers in this economy, and the S&P 500 happens to be constituted primarily of the winners. Almost anything digital right now is gold.

There's also the fact that many companies that are doing well right now are keeping quiet about it. I know from personal experience at the company I work for (fintech midsized startup) that executives are very careful not to be openly positive about benefiting from the pandemic. Publicly admitting that you profitted by a global pandemic and an economic recession is in poor taste, and companies are rightly tentative about doing so.

From my work I've seen anything adtech related explode. Publishers or aggregators whose primary revenue stream is online advertising income are growing at incredible rates. Assuming that everyone is hurting because physical businesses are hurting is a huge mistake.

Additionally, as many analysts have been saying, the pandemics primary effect so far has been to accelerate existing trends, not create new ones. We're seeing a fast-foward in economic transition. Companies that were well positioned before the pandemic for the economy of the future (automation, digital) are doing swimmingly.

Re: How can Wall Street be so healthy when Main Street isn’t?

#24
Just from a very theoretical level, low interest rates means the net present value (NPV) of companies, ie their stock prices, are weighted more heavily to future earnings and not just this year's earnings. So if the market is pricing in some return to normalcy, even if it's a year or two out, you wouldn't expect to see much of a hit. Assuming companies can get from here to there without going bankrupt, something the government has been very explicit about helping with by providing cheap/free funds.

Edit: Plus there's FAAMG driving the S&P500 up, who for obvious reasons are doing very well right now.

Re: How can Wall Street be so healthy when Main Street isn’t?

#27
By holding interest rates so low, the Fed has created a double-bind: despite the systemic risks (which are very high) people who have investable cash have two options: the stock market or paying down debt.

The stock market is being "invested" in not because it is a good investment at this point (it isn't) but because there is no where else to go. If interest rates ever revert to anything normal, it will get crushed. In the meantime this means that large, multinational companies are flush and are able to destroy smaller, more local competition. This trend is aided by the lockdowns, as well as the fact that large companies have access to the extremely low interest rates, but smaller players do not. You will continue to pay usurious rates on credit cards and most small business loans, while Global Corp. can issue corporate debt as very low rates.

Paying down debt is the opposite of what the Fed wants: in our system debt is the true money supply, so when debt is extinguished the money supply contracts. You can see this clearly in 2008:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TCMDO

Steve Keen outlines our best hope, a modern debt jubilee, here:

http://www.profstevekeen.com/modern-debt-jubilee/

Re: How can Wall Street be so healthy when Main Street isn’t?

#28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And state and city governments went ahead and took 80% of their covid money to pay themselves or their sinking pensions, etc. > As part of the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act signed in March, Sacramento County received $181 million to fund necessary programs or expenses tied to the COVID-19 pandemic ... Of the nearly $148 million that the county has already spent in the last few months, more than $1…

You mean to pay for teachers, first responders, etc...? Yes it takes humans to provide services.

Yep, most expensive part of local budgets by far.

Re: How can Wall Street be so healthy when Main Street isn’t?

#29
From the New York Times this morning, about the irrational stock market:

"As irrational as it might seem, here’s the way investors rationalize the bullish stock market to themselves (we’ll only find out whether they are right or wrong in the future):

1. The stock market is forward-looking: Investors are betting on what the world and the economy look like in 12 to 18 months from now, not what they look like today, tomorrow or this fall.

2. The big get bigger: Much of the stock market’s success has been the result of a run-up in value for a few big technology companies — including Apple, Amazon and Microsoft — that make up a large share of the index. And retailers like Walmart and Home Depot are growing in part because small businesses have closed, allowing the bigger companies to take even more market share.

3. Betting on a vaccine: Given the daily headlines about the potential for a vaccine, investors want to be invested in the market when the news comes that there is a genuine vaccine, on the assumption that it will send stocks even higher.

4. The only game in town: With the Federal Reserve planning to print money for the foreseeable future, investors don’t want to be in cash or bonds, which are steadily losing value. So where else can they put their money? The stock market has become a default.

5. Help from Washington: As dysfunctional as Congress has proved to be, investors are betting that Republicans and Democrats will find a way to keep plying the economy with stimulus. (Anecdotal stories suggest some Americans have even taken their $600 unemployment checks and invested them in the stock market.)

Of course, all of these rationalizations don’t take into account the possibility of a terrible second or third coronavirus wave, a delay in the discovery of a vaccine, a constitutional crisis come the election in November, runaway inflation, the prospect of higher taxes to pay for the stimulus, a more significant trade war with China, or the dozens of other risks that seem to be bubbling just below — and in some cases on — the surface.

In the meantime, happy trading!"

*

#4 I hadn’t thought of, and is a VERY troubling sign I think. Cash is devaluing because of inflation. Bonds are devaluing because of a loss of hope of future repayment (they are debt instruments).

Re: How can Wall Street be so healthy when Main Street isn’t?

#30
post #13

It's really not that complicated. Wall Street doesn't (generally) own businesses on Main Street. Main Street is skewed towards locally owned boutiques, cafes, shops, restaurants and so on. Those are getting killed but it doesn't matter to the S&P 500 because they're not listed there. To some extent it is good for the S&P 500 as the money shifts from those locally owned businesses to the mega corps in the S&P 500. We'…

>We've gone from ~4% unemployment to 10-15%. Which sounds bad. But if you flip it around, we've gone from 96% employment to 85-90%. The vast majority of people are still employed and the economy is mostly still humming along.

This is not how it works.

The US measures unemployment using levels, the 10-15% are U-3, which only counts people without jobs who are in the labor force. To remain in the labor force, they must have looked for a job in the last four weeks.

The U-6, or real unemployment rate, includes the underemployed, the marginally attached, and discouraged workers and is at 25%.

There are plenty of deeper explanations online but basically politicians love to talk about U-3 but the true unemployment is U-6.

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