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The Last of the Hedgehogs: René Girard

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Re: The Last of the Hedgehogs: René Girard

#11

Post by pdabbadabba »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #5
zpeti wrote: post #2

I think most people would have heard about him from Peter Thiel. Based on his recommendations I read The Scapegoat last year and it was a real eye opener, with many "mind blown" moments. For me the really fascinating thought is that the reason the west thrived, was the fact that christianity has an inbuilt awareness about the scapegoat mechanism. Scapegoat being a person who is blamed for all societies ills, who by t…

People who suggest Christianity has a positive side sometimes show an astonishing lack of awareness about its history of self-promoting spin and its unarguable ethical and social flaws.

I think you're proving GP's point. The very thought of conceding that there may be a positive side to Christianity (anything! no matter how small!) has you going on about its "unarguable ethical and social flaws." These may indeed be grave. But this don't even begin to justify your implicit contention that there is no positive side to Christianity.

I think the truth is actually pretty obvious: Christianity had both good sides and unarguable ethical and social flaws.

Re: The Last of the Hedgehogs: René Girard

#12

Post by motohagiography »

iorrus wrote: post #7

Here is a far better written intro to Rene Girard [0], the article linked is worst kind of overwritten academic verbiage with nothing substantive to say, almost incoherent. [0] https://alexdanco.com/2019/04/28/secrets-about-people-a-shor...

Seconded. Danco's summary of Girard is fantastic. I don't look forward to the thoughts of many people, but his substack newsletter is worth a read as well. He's one of the few smart people still talking.

Re: The Last of the Hedgehogs: René Girard

#13

Post by motohagiography »

Girard's idea of mimetic violence, which is the result of people being too similar and not sufficiently different to be considered an un-threatening other, provides both explanatory and predictive power for the culture war as well. When we talk about the uncanny valley in tech, it's a similar visceral reaction. The out-group is us, and yet not us, and is thus an existential threat that makes total war seem inevitable. I didn't read his suggestions for how to unravel that Gordian (Girardian?) Knot, and rather hope he had some prescriptions for avoiding or rolling back points of no return.

Re: The Last of the Hedgehogs: René Girard

#14

Post by christopherbalz »

zpeti wrote: post #2

I think most people would have heard about him from Peter Thiel. Based on his recommendations I read The Scapegoat last year and it was a real eye opener, with many "mind blown" moments. For me the really fascinating thought is that the reason the west thrived, was the fact that christianity has an inbuilt awareness about the scapegoat mechanism. Scapegoat being a person who is blamed for all societies ills, who by t…

Girard's theory also applies very well to mass culture movements for social and political change. Shameless plug: My book rests in large part upon his theories: https://www.nottotouchthesun.net/doorsinpoetryandhistory/

Re: The Last of the Hedgehogs: René Girard

#15

Post by Alester »

iorrus wrote: post #7

Here is a far better written intro to Rene Girard [0], the article linked is worst kind of overwritten academic verbiage with nothing substantive to say, almost incoherent. [0] https://alexdanco.com/2019/04/28/secrets-about-people-a-shor...

Of course, it was not this writer's intention to provide an introduction to René Girard. A lot of those are tendentious and dull, and this piece is witty and fun. He's discussing a new book instead.

Re: The Last of the Hedgehogs: René Girard

#16

Post by AnimalMuppet »

zpeti wrote: post #2

I think most people would have heard about him from Peter Thiel. Based on his recommendations I read The Scapegoat last year and it was a real eye opener, with many "mind blown" moments. For me the really fascinating thought is that the reason the west thrived, was the fact that christianity has an inbuilt awareness about the scapegoat mechanism. Scapegoat being a person who is blamed for all societies ills, who by t…

Someone here gave a link to a masterful takedown of Girard's claims in The Scapegoat. Basically, in order to make his claims, he's just making stuff up - about Christianity, and about Oedipus, and about almost everything else he cites as historical evidence for his position. If you look at pretty much anything he cites, and get past his beautiful writing enough to actually think about his claims, you look at the claim, and the citation, and you find that there is no actual evidence for the claim in the citation. He's making up the evidence by reading it into places that don't give evidence for his position at all.

That is not an approach that commends his position to me.

Wish I had kept a link to the article. Does anyone here remember? Will the original poster of that link be kind and post it again?

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