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Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

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Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#271
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of seafood is farmed. The majority of shrimp for instance comes from farms.

Ocean fish farming is more a conversion process than a production process. Most of the feed is wild catch fish.

Something like 3lbs of wild caught fish as feed to produce 1lb of farmed salmon.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#272

With the way the human population is expanding and the rising income of 3rd world nations we are really going to look at a major increase in both genetically engineering food stock to be larger and more nutritious as well as ramping up lab grown meat. Conservation is clearly not going to work as so many nations ignore it anyway and quite often regulations lack teeth due to the fear of killing an industry. Its difficu…

The answer is fewer people. I can't see any reason to encourage a rising population, even while I see one has to be careful about encouraging a decreasing population. Nonetheless, engineering for population growth--even if it works--doesn't lead to the best possible world.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but people eat wild mammals on a regular basis. Not in meaningful quantity. It would bet that the median time since a typical Westerner last had wild mammal could be measured in months if not years.

I'd bet a typical westerner has never eaten wild mammal meat. I expect the statement in born from the misconception that "game" meat as found in restaurants and for sale is from wild animals, when it is actually farmed.

At least in Austria there is a game season (hunting is quite big) and game meat is in abundance.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#274
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I sure wish a tech billionaire would do something about this. I sure wish VOTERS would "do something" about this, where "something" = vote for the party/parties that actually champion or at least acknowledge the importance of dealing with AGW/CO2 increasing vs actively denying and supporting continuing the current anti-free market policies destroying so much future beauty and potential. This should have been so str…

The voters won't be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to solve the problem, once they realize how much it would impact them. They won't be willing to dramatically lower their quality of life to save some Pacific islanders who live thousands of miles away. One of the biggest problems is that the damage caused by reducing emissions falls disproportionately on the poor voters in developed countries. Look at what…

I think this is a fair point, but are there perhaps compromises where quality of life doesn't have to go down? Solar panels on homes with government subsidies where fossil fuels are still heavily used for electricity. Investments (BIG ones) in public/metro transportation.

I agree with human psychology being a limiting factor here, but I think there are also ways we can work with it, by saying that life quality doesn't have to go down or can even improve, rather than the current all or nothing approach.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't any articles I can point you to, but I live in Portland, Ore., and between here and Vancouver and Camas, WA, there are a number of collectives that are doing exactly this. They don't publicize, it is word of mouth. They primarily focus on raising chickens and pigs, and butchering them for the members. All members participate somehow. Some members host the animals, others who cannot, contribute for feed a…

This comment made me realize the original Portlandia episode with Colin the Chicken is a decade old already. Surprising to me that year-round veggies is so hard even with modern methods/greenhouses.

> Surprising to me that year-round veggies is so hard even with modern methods/greenhouses.

You are correct: it is not so hard with modern methods, but none of the small communities I know of (15-50 people) have invested in a greenhouse of sufficient size. And even the local farms here don't have greenhouses, not that I am aware of. That seems odd to me, perhaps I am missing something because that seems unlikely now that I think about it...

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#276
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic and sustainable methods are more efficient, even without GMOs [1]. It is a myth that GMOs or high-tech is the answer to food production/land scarcity concerns, as simply managing a farm properly can lead to yield increases multiple times over conventional, unsustainable methods (annual tillage, broad spectrum pesticides, etc). This is in part because GMOs that are in wide use are little more than ways to deal…

No they aren’t. Organic for the most part is a myth. What they do is either spray with a pesticide that can be classified as organic (often nicotine derived) or create an island of organic surrounded by a conventional buffer. Often both.

> Organic for the most part is a myth

This is not really true, I think the problem is every country has a different definition and standards, sometimes multiple.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#277
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a resident of a first world country I stopped eating all seafood about 15 years ago. It seems unethical to support over-fishing if I have plenty of other good food to eat.

Plenty of seafood is farmed. The majority of shrimp for instance comes from farms.

100 Grams of shrimp has a carbon footprint of 198kg(436lb)

https://phys.org/news/2012-02-tiny-shrimp-giant-carbon-footp...

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#278
post #195
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is for the UK: https://www.mcsuk.org/goodfishguide/search The app page has links to Android and iOS apps, and a PDF (although the latter is dense and highly coloured, not ideal to print). This being for the UK, they also have a fish finger guide.

But what winds me up in the UK is how rarely i even have the option of eating sustainably. If i go to a fishmonger, or a decent-sized supermarket, sure. But in a small supermarket, or a pub or a fish and chip shop, it's always the standards: cod, haddock, skate, rock, plaice (and to be honest plaice is a pleasant surprise). Of those, haddock is the only one that's really okay (scores 2-4): https://www.mcsuk.org/goodf…

The strange thing is I can remember when there was a push to use whiting over cod, but on that site the former is 3-5 while cod is 1-2

Breaded plaice is my favourite, although often chip shops don't seem to have any

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#279
post #6

I really wish there was a way to stop all fishing at a commercial level for 10 years. Not that you can’t eat a fish just that if you want that luxury you have to go catch it yourself. I know this will never happen.

> Not that you can’t eat a fish just that if you want that luxury you have to go catch it yourself. But can't I pay a thousand dollars to a friend to catch the fish for me? I'm afraid of the sea.

Basically no, we would have to decide as a society that your inability to catch your own fish does not outweigh the needs of all of the rest of the people. And this lies the problem in that solution a lot of people would be left without. The person in a wheel chair. The elderly who are not physically able. The person afraid of the sea. And so on. That’s why I also acknowledge it won’t happen. We could highly tax the sale of fish restaurants though and use that for subsidies and fish restoration. We could decide like fossil fuel use that this is important to the future of humanity and even though it would be near impossible we try anyways. Canada and the US could decide to subsidize the fishing industry and ask them to sit idle or offer retraining or something.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#280
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society will never overcome this tragedy of the commons. Only a few will make personal sacrifice for the common good. Only a market-driven solution will be viable. We need to find sustainable alternatives that are better than the foods they replace. Just like we need electric cars that are better than internal combustion engines.

>Only a few will make personal sacrifice for the common good. Are you vegetarian? I chose to, only because I want mankind to live on this planet for a long time. That's not a sacrifice, that's a basic choice. I'm not sacrificing stuff when I chose to behave responsibly (e.g driving safely, not stealing my neighbors, paying taxes, etc). Do you think people only pay taxes because they fear the police? Or they don't kil…

You are benevolent in these ways. Most people are not. If most people behaved the same way as you, tragedy of the commons and moral hazard would not be real things. But they are real things. A successful policy will take that into account, not just hope for everyone to be benevolent.
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