Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world • Hacker News Board

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#231

Post by TN1ck » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

aqme28 wrote: post #88

TN1ck wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I wish organically growing food and conservation was the answer, its unfortunately not. I recently had a lengthy discussion with some friends about their support of a solidary organic farm, where you pay a flat fee per month and get a box of whatever they have in that week. It's really hard for most people to understand that things like these are not sustainable and that it's purely a luxury product. Terms li…

I think there are confused definitions for "sustainable." There's "sustains the land," which is food that can be grown this way indefinitely, which is what most people mean when they say "sustainable agriculture." To be more specific, "meeting society's present food and textile needs, without compromising the ability for current or future generations to meet their needs." You're saying sustainable as in "can sustain…

You are right, I was focused on the sustainability to feed all the people with that method. From the comments here it seems I was a bit too pessimistic and that there are some working examples, pretty exciting! Probably have to get back to my friends, after I looked through the material.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#232

Post by Gieskanne » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

beached_whale wrote: post #20

We should be fixing farmed fish. When was the last time people ate wild cow. It's not sustainable for a population to be exploiting wild fish, farm properly and learn to do it quickly. As long as we eat meat, we have to do it in the least intrusive way.

We should fix the mental image of having meat/fish every single day.

And the rest of it.

A few month ago we were in a nice restaurant, my wife got a non meat dish and i got a meat dish (i also order non meat dishes it just happend that time)

The waiter told me exactly what meat i had and for my wife he said 'the vegetarian dish'. No its not the vegetarian dish. It has a name and its tasty.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#233

Post by failuser » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

mping wrote: post #192

zackmorris wrote: post #100

I'm shocked that the article didn't mention this, but the mass die-offs we're seeing are because the world's coral reefs will be dead by 2050: https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/environment-90-per... https://www.businessinsider.com/great-barrier-reef-could-dis... https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2020/02/24/70-90-per... The effect of this is that 500 million pacific islanders will be forced to flee to So…

Why a tech billionaire? We as humans just need to eat less animal food, and reduce our emissions as low as possible.

I hope he was sarcastic.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#234

Post by Gieskanne » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

phonypc wrote: post #124

MattGaiser wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but people eat wild mammals on a regular basis. Not in meaningful quantity. It would bet that the median time since a typical Westerner last had wild mammal could be measured in months if not years.

I'd bet a typical westerner has never eaten wild mammal meat. I expect the statement in born from the misconception that "game" meat as found in restaurants and for sale is from wild animals, when it is actually farmed.

It is quite common here to shot deer to keep it under control and it gets sold to local butchers.

At least in germany.

My father is also a hunter.

Its looks like this: https://www.google.com/search?q=jaeger+deutschland&tbm=isch&...

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#235

Post by bjoli » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

Depurator wrote: post #128

beached_whale wrote: post #20

We should be fixing farmed fish. When was the last time people ate wild cow. It's not sustainable for a population to be exploiting wild fish, farm properly and learn to do it quickly. As long as we eat meat, we have to do it in the least intrusive way.

I'm doing a Ph.D. in salmon farming, it's an exciting field for sure. Just to address some common misconceptions: * The feed used for norwegian salmon is about 70-80% plant based, so the fish is a net producer of marine protein. The majority is soy, and the industry is trying to transition to sustainable feed ingredients such as insects (see Protix) and micro algae for EPA/DHA (See veramaris) * The farmed salmon does…

Are there any viable solutions to the problems with off-shore farming? Last time I checked the ecosystem around you typical Scandinavian salmon farm in the ocean was devestated.

We take extreme care not to flush our own sewers into the sea, yet happily permit salmon farms with the equivalent fertilizing effect of a town of 25000 having all their toilets flush everything out on the shore.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#236

Post by coffeefirst » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

the_af wrote: post #53

neckardt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Society just wont change to support it. Maybe this is just me, but I would happily change my diet to be around 50% Soylent or other meal replacement if the cost was cheaper. Currently I eat around 2400 calories a day, with Soylent that costs me $20 a day. I can get Chipotle for ~$15 per day, and between the two Chipotle clearly wins on taste. From what I can tell meal replacements are often far more environmentally…

What about people who enjoy eating? Cheese, meat, vegetables, wine, etc? Let's not forget eating is a pleasurable activity, not only a source of energy and protein.

I don't get the people who jump straight to dystopian goo foods. There's no shortage of culinary traditions that relied on less meat and are actually food. Have they never seen a black bean taco?

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#237

Post by fizzled » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

fizzled wrote: post #184

TN1ck wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I wish organically growing food and conservation was the answer, its unfortunately not. I recently had a lengthy discussion with some friends about their support of a solidary organic farm, where you pay a flat fee per month and get a box of whatever they have in that week. It's really hard for most people to understand that things like these are not sustainable and that it's purely a luxury product. Terms li…

There aren't any articles I can point you to, but I live in Portland, Ore., and between here and Vancouver and Camas, WA, there are a number of collectives that are doing exactly this. They don't publicize, it is word of mouth. They primarily focus on raising chickens and pigs, and butchering them for the members. All members participate somehow. Some members host the animals, others who cannot, contribute for feed a…

Oh, I forgot to mention one other weird thing: this isn't just liberals. There is a frightening large contingency of white supremacists who are into this, and a few showed up at Portland farmers market until they were outed. Regardless of how you feel about having racist nationalists selling next to hippies, self-sufficiency is quite a thing up here.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#238

Post by Synaesthesia » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

xoa wrote: post #189

zackmorris wrote: post #100

I'm shocked that the article didn't mention this, but the mass die-offs we're seeing are because the world's coral reefs will be dead by 2050: https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/environment-90-per... https://www.businessinsider.com/great-barrier-reef-could-dis... https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2020/02/24/70-90-per... The effect of this is that 500 million pacific islanders will be forced to flee to So…

> I sure wish a tech billionaire would do something about this. I sure wish VOTERS would "do something" about this, where "something" = vote for the party/parties that actually champion or at least acknowledge the importance of dealing with AGW/CO2 increasing vs actively denying and supporting continuing the current anti-free market policies destroying so much future beauty and potential. This should have been so str…

I agree with you but it’s not just about voting. It’s about activism and putting pressure on the government too.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#239

Post by pvaldes » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

vzidex wrote: post #114

pvaldes wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a point here, yup. Some vegetables are luxury food, and less efficient than cattle. Replacing nature with monocultures is a problem. If we stop eating cattle for that, there is not moral room to keep eating chocolate, for example. Or coffee

>Some vegetables are luxury food, and less efficient than cattle [Citation needed] I'll assume you're arguing in good faith, but this argument is a common straw man made by people who are against plant-based diets. In fact, the only case where you have a point is that the worst case for chocolate produces more emissions than the best case for beef [1]. Odds are that if you're eating beef in North America it comes fro…

> [Citation needed]

pvaldes, 2020

Some facts are so well stablished in human knowledge that there is not need to cite it. For example: "Some crops are more productive than other. Point".

We, humans know it since 10.000 years ago. Anybody can see it with their eyes. Not need to repeat what Aristotle would say about it.

Primary and secondary production, is a big fat chapter in any Ecology handbook. Any Plant physiology handbook will explain the differences between CAM and C4 plants

If nobody is trying to produce a natural sized cow sculpture made of vanille beans, there must be a reason.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#240

Post by all_usernames » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

danhak wrote: post #217

all_usernames wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm... 1) Vegetables are better than meat foods in the minds of the hundreds of millions of vegetarians out there. 2) Vegetarians do not consider their diet to be a 'sacrifice'. Quite the opposite. There are many benefits. Therefore, one could argue, more people need to be educated on the benefits of plant-based diets, and they will choose them.

Vegetarians are a minority. Most omnivores would consider it a sacrifice to shift to a vegetarian diet. Changing the world's mind on this is a losing strategy for sustainability.

I think this is a cynical attitude. Until 1990, the majority of people driving cars did not wear a seatbelt.

An even better analogy is tobacco use. In the 1950s and 1960s America, you'd hear the same kind of things about cigarettes as you do these days about meat-eating: it's red-blooded, it's manly, it's good for you! Meanwhile the incredibly high impact to health of people and populations was becoming more clear all the time, just like the consumption on meat.

Attitudes, beliefs, and stupid behaviors can and do change over time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_use_rates_in_the_Uni...