Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world • Hacker News Board

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#211

Post by ip26 » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #29

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

With the way the human population is expanding and the rising income of 3rd world nations we are really going to look at a major increase in both genetically engineering food stock to be larger and more nutritious as well as ramping up lab grown meat. Conservation is clearly not going to work as so many nations ignore it anyway and quite often regulations lack teeth due to the fear of killing an industry. Its difficu…

Yup. We're already pretty much at capacity in terms of using arable farming land[1]. We need more efficient farming, which means GMOs and advanced farming methods; we don't need less efficient farming like organic and anti-GMO. [1] https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/how-much-arabl...

Is this not exactly what you would expect in a free market? All arable farming land will produce whatever crop brings in the best return; no arable land will be left fallow long term.

But just because we are using all of it doesn't mean we need all of it or else starve. Vast quantities of crops are used to produce biofuel, or feed for livestock, or raw materials for other non-food products.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#212

Post by 2ion » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

all_usernames wrote: post #207

growlist wrote: post #196

When are people going to start acknowledging the elephant in the room: there are too many humans for us all to live western lifestyles, and unless we want our descendants to live vastly poorer lives we need to give serious attention to population control now.

Because there are alternatives to population control, like increasing the sustainability of food and energy sources. After all, the planet now supports twice as many people as it did a few decades ago, and that's basically down to agricultural yield improvements. Making less humans seems to be morally taboo, no one wants to go there.

> Making less humans seems to be morally taboo, no one wants to go there.

The train will eventually have arrived at that station while people continue to pretend it didn't.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#213

Post by sethammons » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

vzidex wrote: post #114

pvaldes wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a point here, yup. Some vegetables are luxury food, and less efficient than cattle. Replacing nature with monocultures is a problem. If we stop eating cattle for that, there is not moral room to keep eating chocolate, for example. Or coffee

>Some vegetables are luxury food, and less efficient than cattle [Citation needed] I'll assume you're arguing in good faith, but this argument is a common straw man made by people who are against plant-based diets. In fact, the only case where you have a point is that the worst case for chocolate produces more emissions than the best case for beef [1]. Odds are that if you're eating beef in North America it comes fro…

There are vast areas that are very, very poor for growing anything other than some grasses. These lands will not support growing plant based foods for people. However! They do produce plant based food for cattle. You end up with 0.5-2 acres of this land to feed a cow.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#214

Post by all_usernames » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

danhak wrote: post #81

greenhorse wrote: post #68

It's not that hard to be vegetarian or at least cut back a lot on meat folks.

Society will never overcome this tragedy of the commons. Only a few will make personal sacrifice for the common good. Only a market-driven solution will be viable. We need to find sustainable alternatives that are better than the foods they replace. Just like we need electric cars that are better than internal combustion engines.

Umm...

1) Vegetables are better than meat foods in the minds of the hundreds of millions of vegetarians out there.

2) Vegetarians do not consider their diet to be a 'sacrifice'. Quite the opposite. There are many benefits.

Therefore, one could argue, more people need to be educated on the benefits of plant-based diets, and they will choose them.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#215

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

With the way the human population is expanding and the rising income of 3rd world nations we are really going to look at a major increase in both genetically engineering food stock to be larger and more nutritious as well as ramping up lab grown meat. Conservation is clearly not going to work as so many nations ignore it anyway and quite often regulations lack teeth due to the fear of killing an industry. Its difficu…

This is one reason I'm such a fan of fake meat companies like Impossible Foods.

I've tried to go on vegetarian diets before, but I just can't do it. I always feel weak and just generally "not right". I don't eat a ton of meat, but I find it really difficult to abstain 100%.

An Impossible Burger, however, completely satisfies my cravings for meat. It's not just that it tastes like meat, but I feel sated after eating an Impossible or Beyond Burger in a way I just don't feel eating a normal veggie burger.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#216

Post by ip26 » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #143

golergka wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why science fiction and not plain old fish farming?

Currently fish farming is often just fish recycling. Conversion of lower quality feed fish into higher quality market fish.

The most depressing part is the feed fish are often healthier for you than the farmed fish.

We go through this whole process and the result is half as much fish as we started with, and it's worse for you.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#217

Post by danhak » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

all_usernames wrote: post #214

danhak wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society will never overcome this tragedy of the commons. Only a few will make personal sacrifice for the common good. Only a market-driven solution will be viable. We need to find sustainable alternatives that are better than the foods they replace. Just like we need electric cars that are better than internal combustion engines.

Umm... 1) Vegetables are better than meat foods in the minds of the hundreds of millions of vegetarians out there. 2) Vegetarians do not consider their diet to be a 'sacrifice'. Quite the opposite. There are many benefits. Therefore, one could argue, more people need to be educated on the benefits of plant-based diets, and they will choose them.

Vegetarians are a minority. Most omnivores would consider it a sacrifice to shift to a vegetarian diet.

Changing the world's mind on this is a losing strategy for sustainability.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#218

Post by pvaldes » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #132

saddlerustle wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 500 million pacific islanders will be forced to flee to Southeast Asia How the heck did you come up with this number? The entire population of Oceania excluding Australia, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea is 3 million.

Indonesia and the Philippines are island nations. Their population is 273 million and 110 million respectively.

The action is placed in 2050 and nothing prevents the actual population to change their numbers in the next years, is just a way to say lottazillions of people

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#219

Post by irthomasthomas » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

Everyone please stop blaming coral bleaching on climate change. Nitrogen run-off from farming is the main cause. We need to reduce nitrogen enrichment in farming, which will lead to lower yields and lower profits (or, more likely, higher prices). But blaming climate change here is an egregious example of green washing which will prevent or delay resolving the real issue. Stop it. Please.

"Anthropogenic nutrient enrichment is often associated with coral reef decline. Consequently, there is a large consent that increased nutrient influxes in reef waters have negative longterm consequences for corals" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187734351...

"Increased loadings of nitrogen (N) from fertilizers, top soil, sewage, and atmospheric deposition are important drivers of eutrophication in coastal waters globally. Monitoring seawater and macroalgae can reveal long-term changes in N and phosphorus (P) availability and N:P stoichiometry that are critical to understanding the global crisis of coral reef decline" https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00227-019-3538-9

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#220

Post by Gieskanne » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #185

spectrum1234 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I sure wish a tech billionaire would do something about this. Their inaction on countless fronts, in fact their complacency in undermining progress on environmental causes in global politics, is one of the thousand reasons I got out of tech." - Which industries (and organizations) are you still in at this point?

I've come to realize over the course of 20 years pursuing a career in tech, that work itself is the primary impediment standing in the way of ever working on my dreams. Sure, someone can moonlight and try to change the world. But 99 people of out 100 will never even come close. There's nothing more pathetic than a visionary with no access to resources. Right now I am working with a guy in the solar industry, doing ha…

Soooo you still live in our society? Including using bottled water? Cloth from overseas? Consuming highly processed food?

You are very much dependent.

Whats the difference between me, working in tech, having a good job, great money and being able to put everything i earn in my own land and become independent with something between 40 and 50 versus you? Stoped working, doing small jobs barely making it, not having any money for any sustainable development on your own?

If you are not doing it, everyone else will do.

Either you understand and accept that the world is going to look different in 50 years and you are ready for it with the minimum footprint you need or you go more extreme to try to change something.

And even if you do know that you might not change the world, if you would sacrifice for the society, the money you would earn in tech would allow you, as a single person, to funnel the money from the economy where you want to. You would do more good then tthe other person who is now doing your job and who is just spending and consuming it somehow.

And just to clarify another thing: In tech you are able to go to your boss and work half time and even then you would have more possibilities then in any other job.