Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world • Hacker News Board

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#151

Post by cryptoz » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

danhak wrote: post #81

greenhorse wrote: post #68

It's not that hard to be vegetarian or at least cut back a lot on meat folks.

Society will never overcome this tragedy of the commons. Only a few will make personal sacrifice for the common good. Only a market-driven solution will be viable. We need to find sustainable alternatives that are better than the foods they replace. Just like we need electric cars that are better than internal combustion engines.

> We need to find sustainable alternatives that are better than the foods they replace. Just like we need electric cars that are better than internal combustion engines

That's already happening though. Meat eaters still don't seem to care. I'm a recent vegetarian and the food I eat now tastes better, is often more nutritious, and is easier to make.

The better alternatives are here. Oat milk! Wow! Have you tried it? I knocked vegan cheese forever because it sucked. But you know what? They are starting to make some that is better than some 'real' cheese. Indian food. Baked/BBQ tofu is amazing.

I've had veggie burgers in CA and WA that beat a 'regular' burger by a mile. Try Souley Vegan in Oakland for one. Wowza. Better than any meat burger I've ever had.

Not all vegetarian food is sustainable, I know. But it's better. I'm vegetarian for the taste more than anything really. It's not a sacrifice!

I think a lot meat eaters would be absolutely shocked at how delicious and healthy a lot of vegetarian food is now.

> Only a few will make personal sacrifice for the common good.

??? I didn't make a 'personal sacrifice' to become vegetarian. It's a literal animal sacrifice every meal the other way around! Vegetarian food isn't a sacrifice. What the world needs is to convert more to veggies is to squash the idea that becoming vegetarian means making a sacrifice.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#152

Post by sharkmerry » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

vzidex wrote: post #121

zackmorris wrote: post #100

I'm shocked that the article didn't mention this, but the mass die-offs we're seeing are because the world's coral reefs will be dead by 2050: https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/environment-90-per... https://www.businessinsider.com/great-barrier-reef-could-dis... https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2020/02/24/70-90-per... The effect of this is that 500 million pacific islanders will be forced to flee to So…

> I sure wish a tech billionaire would do something about this. I've noticed in tech that a common hope that people in tech hold is that "the billionaires", in their infinite wisdom and generosity, will pull magical solutions out of their hats and save us all. Like you mention later, yeah, right. > one of the thousand reasons I got out of tech Not an option I've considered much, but it's almost tempting.

>> that "the billionaires", in their infinite wisdom and generosity, will pull magical solutions out of their hats and save us all. Like you mention later, yeah, right.

I think its more that they have the means. Cant get anything done on a large scale without lots of moolah

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#153

Post by ido66667 » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #126

manishsharan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> We need more efficient farming, which means GMOs and advanced farming method Considering the fact that so much of the farmlands are devoted to producing animal feed -- how about we as a species start eating less meats ? Make meats more expensive all around the world by imposing ... dare I say it .. caps on Carbon emission.

Issue is that we are not going to. Just like we are not going to solve global warming by individuals making better carbon choices or even nations as other nations will just do whatever they want. We are only going to win these battles by creating cheaper better alternatives. India and China are not going just stop using coal in the middle of their economic expansion. People are just not going to stop eating meat, esp…

The issue is that we cannot rely on it to actually be there, and to come in time. I agree that we cannot efficiently regulate our behaviour, but I believe that will be our end eventually, science and engineering marvels not withstanding.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#154

Post by MattGaiser » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

phonypc wrote: post #124

MattGaiser wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but people eat wild mammals on a regular basis. Not in meaningful quantity. It would bet that the median time since a typical Westerner last had wild mammal could be measured in months if not years.

I'd bet a typical westerner has never eaten wild mammal meat. I expect the statement in born from the misconception that "game" meat as found in restaurants and for sale is from wild animals, when it is actually farmed.

> I expect the statement in born from the misconception that "game" meat as found in restaurants and for sale is from wild animals, when it is actually farmed.

If we assume that about the bison and venison I have had over the years, it has been at least over a decade for me. Not sure if we farm muskrats.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#155

Post by kickout » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

gen220 wrote: post #74

jadler999 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any good studies estimating the carrying capacity of Earth with current ag tech?

It's worth noting that every time there's been estimations on carrying capacity applied to humans, it's eventually turned out to be wrong. The reality is that we are not very efficient at agriculture in all of the places where agriculture is practiced. Most carrying capacity models make the assumption that we are at or near peak agricultural output, but this simply isn't true, so the models' predictive powers fall ap…

What? Agriculture is hyper-efficient in the biggest areas of the world (US Midwest, Brazil, Eastern Europe).

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#156

Post by ascar » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #100

I'm shocked that the article didn't mention this, but the mass die-offs we're seeing are because the world's coral reefs will be dead by 2050: https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/environment-90-per... https://www.businessinsider.com/great-barrier-reef-could-dis... https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2020/02/24/70-90-per... The effect of this is that 500 million pacific islanders will be forced to flee to So…

> All due to runaway global warming acidifying the ocean with CO2.

Doesn't an increase in water temperature release CO2 from the water, because warm water binds less CO2 than warm water? I remember this as one of the many serious effects of accerlating global warming (more CO2 in the atmosphere heats up global temperatures, thereby heats up ocean water, which releases even more CO2).

As CO2 acidifies water shouldn't global warming thus basify the oceans?

Wikipedia about CO2 [1] states that ocean absorbed CO2 from burned fossil fuels. While CO2 from fossil fules is a driver of global warming, the act of global warming itself should actually counteract the acidification of the oceans.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonic_acid#Role_of_carbonic...

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#157

Post by SmirthsDAC » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #136

SmirthsDAC wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic and sustainable methods are more efficient, even without GMOs [1]. It is a myth that GMOs or high-tech is the answer to food production/land scarcity concerns, as simply managing a farm properly can lead to yield increases multiple times over conventional, unsustainable methods (annual tillage, broad spectrum pesticides, etc). This is in part because GMOs that are in wide use are little more than ways to deal…

No they aren’t. Organic for the most part is a myth. What they do is either spray with a pesticide that can be classified as organic (often nicotine derived) or create an island of organic surrounded by a conventional buffer. Often both.

>> Organic for the most part is a myth. What they do is either spray with a pesticide that can be classified as organic

That's demonstrably untrue. Many organic methods use no pesticides at all because they use things like row covers or greenhouses which replaces them, or crop-timing to avoid source pests. Look at any farm inspired by Eliot Coleman methods, which can produce crops cost-competitively with conventional agriculture.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#158

Post by hanniabu » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

saddlerustle wrote: post #142

flerchin wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider Indonesia and the Philippines?

Indonesia and the Philippines pretty universally considered southeast asia and not pacific island nations. They are in-fact the majority of southeast asia, which they are supposedly fleeing to? Also, they're quite developed countries and to the relatively small extent their food consumption is fish, it comes from trade and commercial fishing, not subsistence fishing, so their food supply will be no more impacted than…

> Indonesia and the Philippines pretty universally considered southeast asia

"...will be forced to flee Southeast asia"

OP says it right there in the same sentence you quoted...

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#159

Post by hutzlibu » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

dharma1 wrote: post #41

BucketsMcG wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is the farmed fish are fed on wild fish, so it's several times less efficient than just eating whatever you would have fed them.

Some farmed fish (like tilapia) can live on a variety of things, including soy and corn pellets. Algae, which can be used for many things - human consumption, farmed animal/fish feed and even fuel - can also be farmed sustainably. I think we urgently need global legislation and enforcement of rules, as well as satellite monitoring to stop overfishing. World leaders need to work together on this. Marine ecosystems may…

"I think we urgently need global legislation"

That would require a world government. Not likely to happen and not something I would want to happen for the various potential negative side effects.

It is already very hard to control our national governments.

International treaties and boycotting and embargos of violaters, maybe yes, but currently the trend is into more confrontation and not collaboration.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#160

Post by duhuh » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #113

duhuh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted, but yes, as a society if we find that we are over-using resources, we should cut out those foods. We seem to value a human population numbered in the billions. Some foods won’t work for that population.

I don’t really see us worrying about food scarcity any time soon. We still burn the bulk of our corn as gas until that changes I see no issue with calorie shortages

This is a thread about worrying about seafood scarcity already. Not-anytime-soon has arrived on a food-by-food basis. In the case of seafood, it’s an entire food group!