Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world • Hacker News Board

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#121

Post by vzidex » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #100

I'm shocked that the article didn't mention this, but the mass die-offs we're seeing are because the world's coral reefs will be dead by 2050: https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/environment-90-per... https://www.businessinsider.com/great-barrier-reef-could-dis... https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2020/02/24/70-90-per... The effect of this is that 500 million pacific islanders will be forced to flee to So…

> I sure wish a tech billionaire would do something about this.

I've noticed in tech that a common hope that people in tech hold is that "the billionaires", in their infinite wisdom and generosity, will pull magical solutions out of their hats and save us all. Like you mention later, yeah, right.

> one of the thousand reasons I got out of tech

Not an option I've considered much, but it's almost tempting.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#122

Post by rdtwo » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

zabzonk wrote: post #104

neckardt wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoy eating too, I don't think I would ever switch to meal replacements completely. But I would consider switching my default from my own terrible cooking to a meal replacement and eat out for my other meals.

Learn to cook, read some good cookbooks - for example anything by Madhur Jaffery - it really isn't difficult. The thought of educated people eating crap like Soylent and paying for it, when they could be eating really good food, which completely uneducated people all over the world manage to cook easily, is quite upsetting to me.

I agree we have people here making 200+k a year eating chipotle burritos and soylent as meals. These people are truly missing out.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#123

Post by kickout » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

aqme28 wrote: post #88

TN1ck wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I wish organically growing food and conservation was the answer, its unfortunately not. I recently had a lengthy discussion with some friends about their support of a solidary organic farm, where you pay a flat fee per month and get a box of whatever they have in that week. It's really hard for most people to understand that things like these are not sustainable and that it's purely a luxury product. Terms li…

I think there are confused definitions for "sustainable." There's "sustains the land," which is food that can be grown this way indefinitely, which is what most people mean when they say "sustainable agriculture." To be more specific, "meeting society's present food and textile needs, without compromising the ability for current or future generations to meet their needs." You're saying sustainable as in "can sustain…

It absolutely does. Do not bet against agriculture innovation. We have a comfortable head start and plenty in the pipe. The problem isn't exactly a secret. Multiple decade research projects focus on this and only this problem. We'll be okay (and sustainable too boot).

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#124

Post by phonypc » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #46

i_am_proteus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since cow are definitionally domesticated, nobody has ever eaten a wild cow, but people eat wild mammals on a regular basis. Game is typically much healthier as a food source than domesticated animals; this includes wild-caught fish vs. farm-raised fish.

> but people eat wild mammals on a regular basis. Not in meaningful quantity. It would bet that the median time since a typical Westerner last had wild mammal could be measured in months if not years.

I'd bet a typical westerner has never eaten wild mammal meat.

I expect the statement in born from the misconception that "game" meat as found in restaurants and for sale is from wild animals, when it is actually farmed.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#125

Post by tempsolution » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

Isamu wrote: post #35

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

With the way the human population is expanding and the rising income of 3rd world nations we are really going to look at a major increase in both genetically engineering food stock to be larger and more nutritious as well as ramping up lab grown meat. Conservation is clearly not going to work as so many nations ignore it anyway and quite often regulations lack teeth due to the fear of killing an industry. Its difficu…

>A science fiction style solution is going to be the only way to feed the world. I get what you are saying, I just want to clarify: we can feed everybody now, but mostly with vegetables. But yes, shared resources like ocean fish are under too much pressure right now. I feel as though it will take a major worldwide collapse of the fishing industry before there is better enforcement and treaties.

"Mostly with vegetables"... Like... What? Beans? Rice? That's another global health crisis waiting to happen. The vegetables you'd have to eat in amounts that could sustain people who don't just sit in front of their desk all day, are anything but healthy. Lentils/beans are among the most harmful things you can stuff into yourself, pretty much only outperformed by grains.

I don't know why vegetarians are always so full of themselves. Why don't they just understand that without eating harmful amounts of lentils, or heavy artificial supplementation (protein powders, etc. Yeah toast to your health, there is almost nothing worse than protein powder), all you can do is "survive" with your vegetarian diet. Yeah, humans can survive on a vegetarian diet, but that's about it.

What we need is artificial meat, that comes out of a lab and is virtually indistinguishable from normal meat, except that an animal didn't produce it. And we are already very close to that. What it lacks is mass production and an improved environmental footprint.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#126

Post by wonderwonder » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

manishsharan wrote: post #92

coldpie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. We're already pretty much at capacity in terms of using arable farming land[1]. We need more efficient farming, which means GMOs and advanced farming methods; we don't need less efficient farming like organic and anti-GMO. [1] https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/how-much-arabl...

>> We need more efficient farming, which means GMOs and advanced farming method Considering the fact that so much of the farmlands are devoted to producing animal feed -- how about we as a species start eating less meats ? Make meats more expensive all around the world by imposing ... dare I say it .. caps on Carbon emission.

Issue is that we are not going to. Just like we are not going to solve global warming by individuals making better carbon choices or even nations as other nations will just do whatever they want. We are only going to win these battles by creating cheaper better alternatives.

India and China are not going just stop using coal in the middle of their economic expansion. People are just not going to stop eating meat, especially as many 3rd world nations are just reaching the point they can afford it.

Only way we can come out ahead on this is scientifically devised cheaper and better alternatives.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#127

Post by xenospn » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

greenhorse wrote: post #68

It's not that hard to be vegetarian or at least cut back a lot on meat folks.

Most people would disown their own children before they stop eating meat.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#128

Post by Depurator » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

beached_whale wrote: post #20

We should be fixing farmed fish. When was the last time people ate wild cow. It's not sustainable for a population to be exploiting wild fish, farm properly and learn to do it quickly. As long as we eat meat, we have to do it in the least intrusive way.

I'm doing a Ph.D. in salmon farming, it's an exciting field for sure. Just to address some common misconceptions:

* The feed used for norwegian salmon is about 70-80% plant based, so the fish is a net producer of marine protein. The majority is soy, and the industry is trying to transition to sustainable feed ingredients such as insects (see Protix) and micro algae for EPA/DHA (See veramaris)

* The farmed salmon does not contain any contaminents over allowed limits and they do frequent tests (see https://sjomatdata.hi.no/#/seafood/1577)

* The indsutry is beginning to transition from traditional net-pen farming to offshore, land-based and into cell-based and plant-based production, thus also getting production closer to market and spread over areas that may be less susceptible to pollution.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#129

Post by rdtwo » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

palae wrote: post #50

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

With the way the human population is expanding and the rising income of 3rd world nations we are really going to look at a major increase in both genetically engineering food stock to be larger and more nutritious as well as ramping up lab grown meat. Conservation is clearly not going to work as so many nations ignore it anyway and quite often regulations lack teeth due to the fear of killing an industry. Its difficu…

> A science fiction style solution is going to be the only way to feed the world. What about plant-based diets? That doesn't seem too SF to me

They don’t work. You will have gastro intestinal issues on plant only diets. All those vegan you tubers are cheating for a reason.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#130

Post by kickout » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

achenatx wrote: post #78

palae wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not giving up entirely, I feel like many people, if presented with facts, would be willing to greatly reduce their consumption.

oh the naïveté of youth... The easiest way to reduce meat/fish consumption is to make the cost reflect all the externalities.

Then also make the airlines price seats to pay for externalities. I bet people won't be flying as much if the seat cost $5000 instead of $500 to pay for damage to environment. Don't single out ag. Tech and transportation are just as bad. At least with agriculture, it produces food.