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Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

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Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#101

Post by openasocket »

beached_whale wrote: post #20

We should be fixing farmed fish. When was the last time people ate wild cow. It's not sustainable for a population to be exploiting wild fish, farm properly and learn to do it quickly. As long as we eat meat, we have to do it in the least intrusive way.

One of the biggest issues with the fundamental concept of fish farming is that many of the fish we like to eat are carnivores. So to truly sustainably farm salmon, you would have to farm a bunch of bait fish to use to feed the salmon (in practice I believe the bait fish are usually wild caught). And indirectly you would need to be farming a bunch of algae or seaweed or something to feed the bait fish. Compare that to farming cows or chickens, where you just need to farm a bunch corn to feed them (or if you have enough land available you can make them free range). That extra level of indirection makes farming much more inefficient, which is why essentially all of our domestic animals we use for food are herbivores.

Of course this isn't true of all fish, tilapia being the prime example of a commonly eaten herbivorous fish. And shellfish, being filter feeders, are very easy to farm and actually tend to be beneficial for the surrounding ecosystem.

EDIT: interestingly, according to https://ourworldindata.org/seafood-production in terms of tonnage the amount of wild-caught fish has remained relatively steady since 1990 while the amount of farmed fish has steadily increased and is now more than 50% of our source of fish. There's actually some very interesting data in that link

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#102

Post by ygjb »

KerrickStaley wrote: post #75

If you're interested in adjusting your seafood eating habits towards eating more sustainable seafood, the Monterey Bay Aquarium maintains a guide on which seafood (based on species and location/method of catch) is most sustainable, somewhat sustainable, and not sustainable. My favorite version of the guide is the printable version that you can fold up and put in your wallet: https://www.seafoodwatch.org/seafood-recom…

https://seafood.ocean.org/ is a good international alternative; for example, Ocean Wise logos can be found on many menus in Vancouver and other Canadian cities.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#103

Post by duhuh »

blix wrote: post #71
Isamu wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A science fiction style solution is going to be the only way to feed the world. I get what you are saying, I just want to clarify: we can feed everybody now, but mostly with vegetables. But yes, shared resources like ocean fish are under too much pressure right now. I feel as though it will take a major worldwide collapse of the fishing industry before there is better enforcement and treaties.

Once meat is eradicated in the name of agricultural efficiency, non-grain, non-bean vegetables will probably be next on the chopping block.

I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted, but yes, as a society if we find that we are over-using resources, we should cut out those foods. We seem to value a human population numbered in the billions. Some foods won’t work for that population.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#104

Post by zabzonk »

neckardt wrote: post #59
the_af wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about people who enjoy eating? Cheese, meat, vegetables, wine, etc? Let's not forget eating is a pleasurable activity, not only a source of energy and protein.

I enjoy eating too, I don't think I would ever switch to meal replacements completely. But I would consider switching my default from my own terrible cooking to a meal replacement and eat out for my other meals.

Learn to cook, read some good cookbooks - for example anything by Madhur Jaffery - it really isn't difficult.

The thought of educated people eating crap like Soylent and paying for it, when they could be eating really good food, which completely uneducated people all over the world manage to cook easily, is quite upsetting to me.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#105

Post by r0s »

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

With the way the human population is expanding and the rising income of 3rd world nations we are really going to look at a major increase in both genetically engineering food stock to be larger and more nutritious as well as ramping up lab grown meat. Conservation is clearly not going to work as so many nations ignore it anyway and quite often regulations lack teeth due to the fear of killing an industry. Its difficu…

Supply has never been the problem with feeding the world.

More supply solves nothing.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#106

Post by makerofspoons »

zackmorris wrote: post #100

I'm shocked that the article didn't mention this, but the mass die-offs we're seeing are because the world's coral reefs will be dead by 2050: https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/environment-90-per... https://www.businessinsider.com/great-barrier-reef-could-dis... https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2020/02/24/70-90-per... The effect of this is that 500 million pacific islanders will be forced to flee to So…

I have little hope that we will reduce emissions in time or in sufficient quantity to save the coral reefs. My remaining hope is that projects like Project Vesta will help reverse ocean acidification https://projectvesta.org/

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#107

Post by nanna »

KerrickStaley wrote: post #75

If you're interested in adjusting your seafood eating habits towards eating more sustainable seafood, the Monterey Bay Aquarium maintains a guide on which seafood (based on species and location/method of catch) is most sustainable, somewhat sustainable, and not sustainable. My favorite version of the guide is the printable version that you can fold up and put in your wallet: https://www.seafoodwatch.org/seafood-recom…

I'd be interested in an EU or UK version of this if anyone can link?

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#108

Post by brendoelfrendo »

achenatx wrote: post #78
palae wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not giving up entirely, I feel like many people, if presented with facts, would be willing to greatly reduce their consumption.

oh the naïveté of youth... The easiest way to reduce meat/fish consumption is to make the cost reflect all the externalities.

So, I agree with this in theory, but how does this work in practice? To stick with the topic of seafood, it's just out there in the ocean; as long as it exists in fish-able quantities, people will fish and fish until there's none left. Pricing in externalities would be huge for the US, but it would need to happen on a global scale to make a difference.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#109

Post by s_dev »

MattGaiser wrote: post #46
i_am_proteus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since cow are definitionally domesticated, nobody has ever eaten a wild cow, but people eat wild mammals on a regular basis. Game is typically much healthier as a food source than domesticated animals; this includes wild-caught fish vs. farm-raised fish.

> but people eat wild mammals on a regular basis. Not in meaningful quantity. It would bet that the median time since a typical Westerner last had wild mammal could be measured in months if not years.

>Not in meaningful quantity.

Enough wild meat to introduce a new Virus and pandemic though.

Re: Popular seafood species in sharp decline around the world

#110

Post by readarticle »

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

With the way the human population is expanding and the rising income of 3rd world nations we are really going to look at a major increase in both genetically engineering food stock to be larger and more nutritious as well as ramping up lab grown meat. Conservation is clearly not going to work as so many nations ignore it anyway and quite often regulations lack teeth due to the fear of killing an industry. Its difficu…

The human population isn’t expanding much at all.

In 1950 there were 2.5 billion humans, today there are 7.7 billion, but by the end of the century there will only be ~11 billion.

And at that point, most humans alive will be working age or older (approximately ~3.5 working age adults for every U15).

A lack of human population growth will be one of the defining economic issues this century, with a chance at unfortunately solving the issue of rising incomes at the same time.

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