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If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

software.rajivprab.com

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Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#51

Post by omarhaneef »

kristopolous wrote: post #15
seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

For me I'm far too naturally transgressive to work at a large company. I really wish I could, life would be easier, less work, less stress, pay better... None of them will take me so I keep help building and (sometimes) exiting startups. It's really exhausting. 20 years of this... I wish more companies would value those who "challenge the book" instead of "follow the book" or that I could find a way to obediently fol…

Yeah, I know what you mean. I have a similar issue: just way too good looking for large companies. I could make more money and have less stress at a large company, but my good looks keep me out. Fortunately, this dinky startup is willing to tolerate someone this handsome.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#52

Post by virgilp »

shehryarrr wrote: post #5

That 90-day expiry window is the most archaic bullshit. Can't come up with 200K cash? Too bad, and thanks for all that hard work and long hours you put in.

Another thing that may be hard to understand for non-US citizens. For me, exercising options costs me just that, the option price + bank fees; I owe no tax. I have to pay full tax when & if I sell the shares. This seems like a much fairer taxation regime - I pay tax when I earn something - just having un-sellable shares didn't suddenly increase my wealth.

With this, it actually makes sense to exercise options and stay employed at the startup: you now may not be qualified as a short-term seller when you sell the stock, since you held on to it for a while.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#53

Post by drchopchop »

skrebbel wrote: post #41
seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

Frankly I'm getting tired of this drum HN keeps beating about startups not offering a good work/life balance. Some startups don't, true. Some FAANGs don't either, what's the difference? I know plenty of startups that have a sane working culture as a key point of differentiation in the job market.

Agreed, I am 40+ and am a CTO at a startup which has great work/life balance. We pay approximately market (for a normal dev job, not FAANG), haven't had people do overtime in well over a year, are transparent about finances, and have practically zero politics. It is also possible for a startup to be "stable", especially if it's bootstrapped/profitable.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#54

Post by MaxBarraclough »

nogabebop23 wrote: post #39
seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

to add another valid (yet totally invalid) point: You want an impressive job title. At an established company you're going to be a Software Developer or Engineer level n; at a startup you can easily be Lead, Director of or even a VP if that's important to you.

Is there such thing as an impressive title, in software development, if the company is unheard-of?

This is a sector where people with no relevant formal education and three years on-the-job experience sometimes get called senior.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#55

Post by ownagefool »

skrebbel wrote: post #41
seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

Frankly I'm getting tired of this drum HN keeps beating about startups not offering a good work/life balance. Some startups don't, true. Some FAANGs don't either, what's the difference? I know plenty of startups that have a sane working culture as a key point of differentiation in the job market.

In general, the difference is bucket loads of cash.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#56

Post by [deleted] »

nogabebop23 wrote: post #44
kristopolous wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me I'm far too naturally transgressive to work at a large company. I really wish I could, life would be easier, less work, less stress, pay better... None of them will take me so I keep help building and (sometimes) exiting startups. It's really exhausting. 20 years of this... I wish more companies would value those who "challenge the book" instead of "follow the book" or that I could find a way to obediently fol…

>> those who "challenge the book" instead of "follow the book" This is a valid position and one I can identify with personally, but as I've gotten more emotionally mature over time find it's a little more subtle. You need to include your risk propensity and methodology into the calculation. Even within established companies roles, teams and individual situations are going to be vastly different. Are you willing to ta…

[deleted]

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#57

Post by kristopolous »

omarhaneef wrote: post #51
kristopolous wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me I'm far too naturally transgressive to work at a large company. I really wish I could, life would be easier, less work, less stress, pay better... None of them will take me so I keep help building and (sometimes) exiting startups. It's really exhausting. 20 years of this... I wish more companies would value those who "challenge the book" instead of "follow the book" or that I could find a way to obediently fol…

Yeah, I know what you mean. I have a similar issue: just way too good looking for large companies. I could make more money and have less stress at a large company, but my good looks keep me out. Fortunately, this dinky startup is willing to tolerate someone this handsome.

I'm sorry, that's really uncalled for and a complete misrepresentation of the topic. Would you like to add to the conversation instead? I'll be happy to read whatever you have to say.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#58

Post by drchopchop »

nogabebop23 wrote: post #39
seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

to add another valid (yet totally invalid) point: You want an impressive job title. At an established company you're going to be a Software Developer or Engineer level n; at a startup you can easily be Lead, Director of or even a VP if that's important to you.

That can be important, especially if you've been "under-titled" at your previous job and need to reset yourself on the career ladder. It's a lot easier to go from senior -> lead -> VP -> CTO by jumping into the startup world than it is to climb the ladder at a megacorp.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#59

Post by tehlike »

seibelj wrote: post #20
sky_rw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the size of the startup at the time you join, I found it fairly easy to negotiate an extension to the exercise window. Likely because so few people even bring it up.

There was 0% chance of that occurring as the CEO was a total shark. You would be shocked at how much of the cap table he retained vs. all the crazy funding shenanigans that happened. Very astute player of the game, he did very well. I will invest in his future companies but never work for him again.

Can you name the company, I'm curious

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#60

Post by marcinzm »

drchopchop wrote: post #58
nogabebop23 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to add another valid (yet totally invalid) point: You want an impressive job title. At an established company you're going to be a Software Developer or Engineer level n; at a startup you can easily be Lead, Director of or even a VP if that's important to you.

That can be important, especially if you've been "under-titled" at your previous job and need to reset yourself on the career ladder. It's a lot easier to go from senior -> lead -> VP -> CTO by jumping into the startup world than it is to climb the ladder at a megacorp.

Sure but everyone knows the titles are inflated so it only matters if you plan to stay in startups perpetually. Megacorps won't pay any attention to your inflated title.

edit: And I've seen interviewers pause at such titles and comment "are you sure you want to work here, we can't offer you as nice of a title." So it may count against you even.

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