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Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

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Re: Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

#171
post #74

I take nightly images of my computer's primary drive and replicate them offsite, with alerting if it fails and automated scheduled backup restore testing. It blows my mind to think that some random schmuck like me has better backup procedures than these multibillion dollar global corporations. Companies that don't invest in their IT end up paying for it tenfold down the track.

How do you automatically test restores?

I use Duplicati to manage the offsite backups, it comes with a command line tool which can pull random chunks from the storage bucket, decrypt them, and check the file hashs against expected values

Re: Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

#172
post #49

This is all because someone thought it would be “easy” to add a stream of recurring revenue for cloud photo storage but didn’t take the time to design the service from a technical perspective to be resilient enough to not crash and burn.

This can be just calculated risk. Incredible damage for some users can be negligible damage to the company. In this case just 10TB of data was lost, so maybe thousands of users for the long term storage option. Losing customer data has potential for big reputation or brand damage, but surprisingly often the damage is relatively small. Putting in too much effort when potential damage to business is minimal may not be…

The famous Fort Pinto story comes to mind. The car with the fuel thank in a bad spot, making the car a 'fire trap'.

A risk analysis made by Ford was misinterpreted and seen as a calculated risk of recall vs settlements for injuries/death.

But It turns out it was mostly a hoax.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Retrospective_safet...

Re: Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment reads as "This is normal; nothing to see here move along". Which is more of an indictment on the state of things than on the comment itself. If you can't protect people's shit, don't offer to hold onto it for money!

No, that comment sounds like the insurance job described in Fight Club[1] > Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A…

Or that actually happened, in the known Ford Pinto Memo "affair":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Cost–benefit_analys...

Re: Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

#174
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If memory serves, a class of Glacier storage (AWS) isn't practical to use in the EU because the inability to delete makes it impossible to serve "Right to Erasure" GDPR requests.

Not necessarily. While it's not set in stone, GDPR right to erasure might not be in conflict with backup retention. > The GDPR is open to interpretation, so we asked an EU Member State supervisory authority (CNIL in France) for clarification. CNIL confirmed that you’ll have one month to answer to a removal request, and that you don’t need to delete a backup set in order to remove an individual from it. Organizations…

As I understood it at the time this is the difference between archives and backup.

Re: Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

#175
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can be just calculated risk. Incredible damage for some users can be negligible damage to the company. In this case just 10TB of data was lost, so maybe thousands of users for the long term storage option. Losing customer data has potential for big reputation or brand damage, but surprisingly often the damage is relatively small. Putting in too much effort when potential damage to business is minimal may not be…

The famous Fort Pinto story comes to mind. The car with the fuel thank in a bad spot, making the car a 'fire trap'. A risk analysis made by Ford was misinterpreted and seen as a calculated risk of recall vs settlements for injuries/death. But It turns out it was mostly a hoax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Retrospective_safet...

Intent tends to matter with the law. Ford knew there was a problem, knew they could fix it, and elected not to because "it's a small number of deaths". You can replace things, not people.

That retrospective analysis utterly misses the point: for the area they were responsible for, if the company knew they could do better and elected not to, then they got treated exactly as they should have.

Re: Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limited resources means you can never realistically mitigate 100% of the risk. You just have to decide how much risk your company will accept. People still die in risky surgeries. But we do them despite the risk on the consumer is them being dead.

I'm not sure this is a great comparison. > People still die in risky surgeries. But we do them despite the risk on the consumer is them being dead. The risk of doing or not doing is death. I'm not sure this is the best analogy.

> The risk of doing or not doing is death

Cosmetic surgery...

Re: Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

#177
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that comment sounds like the insurance job described in Fight Club[1] > Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A…

Or that actually happened, in the known Ford Pinto Memo "affair": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Cost–benefit_analys...

And a little further down the same page you linked....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Retrospective_safet...

Turns out the Pinto was within the realm of normal for a car of that type and era and if you're building something normal it's hard to justify recalling it at great expense unless everyone else is recalling it to (in which case that would be normal).

Re: Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there won't be at this rate. Besides, it is now a net negative for their users. 'The cloud is not a backup' should be a mantra that everybody that uses the cloud for their work and personal data be familiar with.

> The cloud is not a backup Of course the cloud is a backup. Why do you think it isn’t? Because it may break? All storage may break. The cloud is a backup. Like all backups, you need multiple independent backups.

Exactly this. I have onsite, and I have a cloud backup. They mitigate different risks, even for personal data.

Re: Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they could like, not. I think there's a world where corporations aren't given a carte blanche pass on human decency. I believe that world is nicer and where possible I work to give it room to exist; I boycott Disney because I believe what they did to the copyright system is wrong. I don't use Google or Microsoft products because I don't think they treat users with respect. (Minus youtube which I use a mirror, and…

"Minus youtube which I use a mirror" ?

[deleted]

Re: Canon's cloud platform has lost users' files and can't restore them

#180
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The famous Fort Pinto story comes to mind. The car with the fuel thank in a bad spot, making the car a 'fire trap'. A risk analysis made by Ford was misinterpreted and seen as a calculated risk of recall vs settlements for injuries/death. But It turns out it was mostly a hoax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Retrospective_safet...

Intent tends to matter with the law. Ford knew there was a problem, knew they could fix it, and elected not to because "it's a small number of deaths". You can replace things, not people. That retrospective analysis utterly misses the point: for the area they were responsible for, if the company knew they could do better and elected not to, then they got treated exactly as they should have.

>Intent tends to matter with the law. Ford knew there was a problem, knew they could fix it, and elected not to because "it's a small number of deaths". You can replace things, not people.

Per the link posted by the GP the Pinto did not have any problems relative to other cars of the same type and era. Ford's "intent" (if you can call it that since they didn't know the future at the time) was to say "err, we don't really think there's a problem here so we'll pay out money when this happens but it's not recall worth" and the investigation bore that out which is why they were not found guilty. I don't really want to defend BigCo (or any other large group with diffuse responsibility) but it's 2020 and here I am.

>That retrospective analysis utterly misses the point: for the area they were responsible for, if the company knew they could do better and elected not to, then they got treated exactly as they should have.

Everyone could always do better on any given metric but the question is at what cost and with what tradeoffs. People buy compacts and subcompacts because they are cheap and fuel efficient. You could build a subcompact that just bounces when rear-ended by a freight train but nobody would buy that because it would cost a ton and weigh a ton (several tons actually) defeating the value proposition of a compact car.

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