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Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

nytimes.com

191–200 of 357 posts

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I opted out, too. I figured "It can't be without any downside as they say." I'm glad I did.

Might want to check city council records for hidden subsidies, covered of course by taxes on people like you and me.

Interesting. My (Sunnyvale, CA) city council is extremely corrupt. I'm not sure I'll know what to look for, though.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#192
post #4

The sooner we switch to solar and grid battery storage, the better. There should be no excuse whatsoever not to do that now. What reasoning is holding us up?

How many solar panels and grid storage batteries would you need to support a population of 39 million people running their air conditioners constantly during a heat wave for a week?

How much would all that equipment cost to buy and to maintain?

That's what's holding us up.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not just overall grid usage, substations have capacities as well. So the business park is going to be underutilized, but the residential ones are probably seeing more demand as people are at home and not turning up the thermostat during the day to save energy (since they are at home and want a comfortable environment, vs. letting the house sit at 80 when nobody is home).

The temperature on the AC at my house is set at 80F. At 80F with the air flow from fans and a dressing light, there is no reason most people cannot be comfortable. I think that people cranking the AC down to 72F like they do are selfish and do not understand the impact that everyday actions have on the world as a whole.

I don't run my AC. It regularly gets up to 85-88F. With air flow from fans and dressing light, there's no reason most people cannot be comfortable.

I think that people who run their AC like they do are selfish and do not understand the impact that their everyday actions have on the world.

(I really don't run my AC. I do think people are overly dependent on it. The number of people I know who have their home cooler in the summer than the winter indicates many people really just do it because they can.

But also I'm not a judgey asshole, so I don't moralize about it to people)

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#194
post #80
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Percentage isn't the issue. Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant provides the base power usage, which isn't the issue that's causing the blackouts. Looking at raw percentage numbers for blackouts is wrong because this is an issue of not having enough capacity during peak, which nuclear doesn't solve.

But wouldn't losing 9% of production reduce peak capacity as well?

Not by 9% though. It's 9% of total, not peak load.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The justification is that there's a particularly high density and quantity of wiring around that fire station (one of two for LAH, IIRC) and that Moody is a major access route for emergency services and evacuation. A giant bundle of wires coming down across the road would strangle a response. A simplistic napkin math computation says that the cost delta in electricity between what Santa Clara pays and what PG&E custo…

I've kinda wondered this for a while -- why is SVP (Santa Clara) cheaper than PG&E?

SVP isn't weighed down with debt from {the Erin Brockavitch lawsuit, the San Bruno gas explosion, the Paradise fire} incidents (among other, less infamous ones).

More likely, though, is that smaller and newer utilities are likely to be more nimble than the big behemoth that has lots of tech debt and internal and external bureaucracy.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#196
post #3

as someone who apprenticed as a lineman briefly, this isnt at all unexpected. Just because you have generating capacity, does not always mean you have capacity in the duty cycle for your transmission infrastructure. Many substations are older, and were never designed to handle high duty and load during climate-change driven weather events. These substations suffer from underreporting as they often dont have remote mo…

Plausible, but then why is it happening in California and not in similarly NIMBYist states? Electromagnetism obsessives live all over the nation.

Rumblings I heard had to do with too-aggressively retiring traditional power plants in favor of renewables, resulting in a lack of adequate baseload power.

But I have looked into it exactly zero.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#197
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they can vote. Yes, stupid people can vote. This is the main vulnerability of democracy.

To be clear, the US is a constitutional republic and not a democracy, and the constant use of the word democracy dilutes this fact.

I don't know where you picked up the meme of "the US is a republic not a democracy" but you might want to read up about the reaction against it:

https://mises.org/wire/stop-saying-were-republic-not-democra...

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-04-11/is-u-s...

https://thebaffler.com/latest/were-a-republic-not-a-democrac...

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#198
post #20
post #3

as someone who apprenticed as a lineman briefly, this isnt at all unexpected. Just because you have generating capacity, does not always mean you have capacity in the duty cycle for your transmission infrastructure. Many substations are older, and were never designed to handle high duty and load during climate-change driven weather events. These substations suffer from underreporting as they often dont have remote mo…

> Wild claims related to electromagnetism basically kill the project at every level. Serious question, why is the answer to this not a slightly-but-not-much-more-polite version of "That's ridiculous, be quiet." and moving forward?

Great question, and I personally believe it's driven by modern American communities being unable to maintain their own infrastructure at any level. 100 years ago people worked for a living, with their hands, and would often have to build, install, and repair their homes, roads, and other infrastructure themselves. They understood the process, and what it takes to get something done.

These days, most households, especially the wealthy ones like in Marin, are helmed by people who do NOT work with their hands, do not respect people who do, and who have no interest in learning more. Even worse, infrastructure work is so heavily regulated and specialized that gobs of accidental complexity prevent anyone who wanted to from learning more about it, reinforcing the ignorance.

And truly, it's easy to have sympathy. The world is a complex place, and no doubt they have their hands full dealing with the technology revolution and palace intrigues at work; who has time to understand something as boring as infrastructure? And besides, if infrastructure fails, it fails for everyone so there's no real benefit to being informed or prepared (in that sense being informed about city infrastructure would be very similar to being a "prepper", in a weaker sense, which comes with it's own stigma).

So if you say "That's ridiculous, be quiet" you will offend sensibilities to the extent YOU will be banned, banned for having dirty knowledge, for shaming those that don't, and for tacitly asserting the value of having such knowledge! Plus, your views aren't in their news-feeds, so there's no emotional juice to them. Emotionally driven opposition is the inevitable retarding force in the hyper-connected, capitalist info-sphere, and ultimately leads to civic ignorance and paralysis. Good luck overcoming that in your city council meetings! (But you have my respect if you even try.)

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#199
post #38
post #3

as someone who apprenticed as a lineman briefly, this isnt at all unexpected. Just because you have generating capacity, does not always mean you have capacity in the duty cycle for your transmission infrastructure. Many substations are older, and were never designed to handle high duty and load during climate-change driven weather events. These substations suffer from underreporting as they often dont have remote mo…

I am a technician for xfinity in the bay area and NIMBYism a huge part too I would say. Huge portions of Mill Valley especially on and around Mt Tam had such bad poles and vegetation. Only the last 3 fire years did anything. But literally nothing gets approved besides exact replacement. Nothing gets put underground, or rerouted because (as I understand it) mostly NIMBY groups. And I believe ATT ultimately owns most o…

> Nothing gets put underground

That is too bad, I grew up in an desert locale that had all its power lines buried and I only experienced one power outage in fifteen years. Then I moved out to a coastal area where burying the lines wasn’t really feasible and pretty much every time it rained someone would hydroplane into a utility poll and knock out the power for a couple hours, and it rained at least once a week. If the climate permits them to bury, they should go for it.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#200

One way to deal with this is to have variable electric rates - cheaper rates when plenty of power is available, and more expensive when less. This incentivizes consumers to time shift their usage. For example, evening A/C use can be time shifted to the day, by cooling the house more during the day, so less is needed in the evening. The thermal mass of a house has a lot of inertia (and can be increased by adding, say,…

California already has variable pricing. It is the main driver for solar installations in the Central Valley.
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