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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#251

Post by baddox »

dwild wrote: post #220
baddox wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a misleading question, because on other platforms you can choose to avoid the store. That's definitely not true. You cannot run unsigned code on most video game consoles. And for PC game marketplaces, those platforms still have market power. Surely there's a big difference between being banned from Steam and being banned from the Discord Store.

> That's definitely not true. You cannot run unsigned code on most video game consoles. And I'm pretty sure many people would be quite against this practice and believe this is an harmful monopolistic practice. The thing is though, no one had the balls and/or the cash to defends this like Epic does right now against Apple. Let's hope this will bring a more open future on video game consoles too.

Most people I've seen commenting on this Epic vs. Apple debate seem to think that it's okay on game consoles but not okay on iPhones, which is just preposterous. At least you're consistent. But what about e-readers, GPS devices, car entertainment systems, etc.? Should all Turing-complete computing devices be forced to provide a way for the owner to run unsigned code?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#252

Post by marcosscriven »

nxc18 wrote: post #180
hu3 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really hope Apple keeps charging 30% app tax and forbidding us from installing apps from outside of App Store?

Yes. In particular, I don't ever want to be in the position that PC users are stuck in, where they can be forced to install certain stores just to get access to the games they want to play. And I certainly don't want to be stuck in the position that Android users are in, where they have to worry about what store they're using, where the software comes from, and whether the app they're about to install is legitimate a…

None of that requires 30%.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#253

Post by Hamuko »

danudey wrote: post #215
mantap wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually when you fire a customer they can go to one of your competitors. This just proves Epic's argument. There is no competing App Store on iOS because it's not allowed. If Apple "fires" you then your users can no longer install the app onto their own phones. Imagine if Microsoft "fired" Adobe and as a result nobody could install Photoshop on Windows anymore.

If Epic thinks that Apple's and Google's store conditions are onerous, just wait until they find out what it's like to ship a game on PS4 or XBox.

If only Epic had ever published a game on PS4 or the Xbox…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_by_Epic_Games

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#255

Post by dubious_one »

As someone who has not played Fortnite, I have a question. Can I as an independent developer create mods or addons equal to what Epic sells using their in game currency and have my mods, skins, etc work in the game? If not, then are they not acting even more egregiously than Apple since Epic has now a "Monopoly" on the Fortnite platform and refuses to allow others to monetize it?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#256

Post by mantap »

baddox wrote: post #188
Maascamp wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But doing so wouldn't make that developer's software unusable on Windows.

Being banned from the iOS App Store also doesn't make your software unusable on Windows, or Mac, or any other non-iOS platform. The App Store's exclusivity is precisely the same as that of nearly every video game console.

Epic's developer account will be suspended, meaning they can no longer use Xcode (!) or sign/notarize apps to run on the Mac.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#257

Post by grumple »

kllrnohj wrote: post #170
philistine wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point in the fight, Epic has not fired its biggest cannon: announcing that Unreal Engine 5 will not support any Apple hardware. So at this point, there is uncertainty, but no clear harm done to any developer using Unreal engine and currently targeting Mac hardware.

UE5 not supporting any Apple hardware would hurt Epic far more than Apple as a result, as it would just drive mobile games back to Unity, which is already the market leader in the mobile space.

You sure about that? Apple already has a bad rep for software not working on Mac. Not many are gaming with macs. I own one game that's mac-compatible and it crashes a lot. Mac is great for dev and design/art related pursuits... and that's about it.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#259

Post by baddox »

gridlockd wrote: post #216
baddox wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, then since we've failed to argue that Apple is a monopoly, what's the next antitrust argument, and how does it apple to iPhones but not to game consoles (which have the same if not stricter restrictions to third-party software developers)?

Game consoles are toys, smartphones are an integral part of people's lives and livelihoods.

That's a very flimsy definition of the difference. Game consoles are generally much more powerful general-purpose PCs that can do everything an iPhone can do (except connecting to cell networks). They tend to be full multimedia consumption devices and can also manage other electronics in your home (lights, security cameras, etc.). Any supposed benefit iPhone owners would gain from being able to run unsigned code would also apply to console owners.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#260

Post by xemoka »

kllrnohj wrote: post #158
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you expect that the xbox and playstation are not general-purpose computing devices is a massive PR win by Sony and Microsoft, and one that Apple wants to copy. Apple doesn't want you to think of an iPhone as a general-purpose computing device. They would prefer you to think of it as an Apple Store app-running machine, to say that it just plays Apple apps.

Consoles don't open themselves up to any developer nor advertise themselves as such. Apple, however, definitely advertises the hell out of the App Store, which is open to anyone. Consoles also sell the hardware at a loss, and use game sales to subsidize it. There's different expectations, advertisements, and economics in play here.

Open to those with an Apple Developer account. It's not open to everyone. The licensing process is just easier than for consoles.
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