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Ask HN: Finding the Australian Aboriginal flag in all artworks

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Re: Ask HN: Finding the Australian Aboriginal flag in all artworks

#21

Post by 0xffff2 »

fit2rule wrote: post #17
sloaken wrote: post #10

I would assume you could not copyright a national flag. If so, well heck I can think of a bunch of flags I need to get copyrighted.

You can't copyright a national flag, but this is not really a national flag - it represents the First Nation people of Australia and Torres Strait - but they do not have sovereignty. Much as they deserve it. Therefore this whole despicable episode comes off as a cynical, racist attempt to deny the original land owners their rightful identity.

I know virtually nothing about this topic, but Wikipedia says that the flag "is one of the officially proclaimed flags of Australia", and the page "List of Australian Flags" [0] lists it as a national flag alongside the flag most people would recognize as the Australian flag. It seems plausible to me based on this that the flag is really a national flag for legal purposes.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_flags

Re: Ask HN: Finding the Australian Aboriginal flag in all artworks

#22

Post by 0xfaded »

sloaken wrote: post #15
ithkuil wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, you first have to create a drawing yourself and somehow get a nation state to adopt it as a national flag. Order of events matters.

Like the 'happy birthday' song, if it is not already copyrighted .... and who would copyright their national flag.

Happy birthday is now public domain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You

Re: Ask HN: Finding the Australian Aboriginal flag in all artworks

#23

Post by pueblito »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #13
airbreather wrote: post #6

The concept of licensing a national flag is interesting, other than to maybe prevent unwanted use in certain ways, is this not something owned by all Australian people? If I draw one on a piece of paper and hang it from my balcony, where do I stand under this licensing? And if I sell that on Etsy, or maybe a landscape that has an element in the background where this flag can be seen? (I am an Australian, but not indi…

Here is a decent summary of the ongoing copyright debate -> https://theconversation.com/explainer-our-copyright-laws-and...

From that link, "Thomas was successful in establishing his claim to authorship before the Federal Court in 1997."

IANAL, but I believe you're 23 years too late

Re: Ask HN: Finding the Australian Aboriginal flag in all artworks

#25

Post by refurb »

fit2rule wrote: post #17
sloaken wrote: post #10

I would assume you could not copyright a national flag. If so, well heck I can think of a bunch of flags I need to get copyrighted.

You can't copyright a national flag, but this is not really a national flag - it represents the First Nation people of Australia and Torres Strait - but they do not have sovereignty. Much as they deserve it. Therefore this whole despicable episode comes off as a cynical, racist attempt to deny the original land owners their rightful identity.

How is it racist? The designer and person who owns the copyright is aboriginal too.

Re: Ask HN: Finding the Australian Aboriginal flag in all artworks

#28

Post by thomasfromcdnjs »

0xffff2 wrote: post #21
fit2rule wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't copyright a national flag, but this is not really a national flag - it represents the First Nation people of Australia and Torres Strait - but they do not have sovereignty. Much as they deserve it. Therefore this whole despicable episode comes off as a cynical, racist attempt to deny the original land owners their rightful identity.

I know virtually nothing about this topic, but Wikipedia says that the flag "is one of the officially proclaimed flags of Australia", and the page "List of Australian Flags" [0] lists it as a national flag alongside the flag most people would recognize as the Australian flag. It seems plausible to me based on this that the flag is really a national flag for legal purposes. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A…

Here is the original proclamation -> https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2008L00209

"I, PHILIP MICHAEL JEFFERY, Governor‑General of the Commonwealth of Australia, acting with the advice of the Federal Executive Council and noting the fact that the flag reproduced in Schedule 1 and described in Schedule 2 is recognised as the flag of the Aboriginal peoples of Australia and a flag of significance to the Australian nation generally, appoint that flag, under section 5 of the Flags Act 1953, to be the flag of the Aboriginal peoples of Australia and to be known as the Australian Aboriginal Flag with effect from 1 January 2008."

Re: Ask HN: Finding the Australian Aboriginal flag in all artworks

#29

Post by dragonwriter »

fit2rule wrote: post #17
sloaken wrote: post #10

I would assume you could not copyright a national flag. If so, well heck I can think of a bunch of flags I need to get copyrighted.

You can't copyright a national flag, but this is not really a national flag - it represents the First Nation people of Australia and Torres Strait - but they do not have sovereignty. Much as they deserve it. Therefore this whole despicable episode comes off as a cynical, racist attempt to deny the original land owners their rightful identity.

> You can't copyright a national flag,

Except maybe the US flag in the US (given the particular US prohibition on copyright of federal government works), I don't see why not; and, actually, if the US were to adopt a private design as the official national flag rather than commission it, I'm not sure it would be a problem even in the US, since other private works adopted as national standards but not created by government in the US remain protected by copyright.

There are certainly ways a private copyright on a national flag is inconvenient, but inconvenient and impossible aren't the same thing.

Re: Ask HN: Finding the Australian Aboriginal flag in all artworks

#30

Post by ksaj »

While not exactly the same, the situation with the Canadian RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) uniform might be an interesting side note to your quest.

The RCMP uniform trademark was licensed to Walt Disney in order to protect it for 5 years while the RCMP learned how to do it on their own: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mountie-no-longer-disney-s-1....

Canada has specific laws and protocols on the use of its symbols, which include the flag. It doesn't cover aboriginal or provincial flags, but has some interesting clauses of how and where they can be used: https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/commerci...

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