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Google: Open Letter to Australians

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Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#331

Post by rokweom »

thu2111 wrote: post #301
sjy wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concepts paper and draft legislation published by the ACCC: https://www.accc.gov.au/focus-areas/digital-platforms/news-m... HN discussed this when the draft legislation was published: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24006150

This law is the latest iteration of newspaper's attempts to turn Google into an ATM for the industry. The first attempt was in Germany. The law said search engines must pay newspapers to index their content. However it didn't specify what the price should be, so Google simply negotiated a fee of zero and the law was in effect nullified. The second attempt was in Spain. It is the same law, but this time they added a c…

How can government tell you what services you must provide? That's ridiculous.

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#332

Post by 627467 »

> A proposed law, the News Media Bargaining Code, would force us to provide you with a dramatically worse Google Search and YouTube, could lead to your data being handed over to big news businesses, and would put the free services you use at risk in Australia.

The last point particularly reads as extortion.

I get why those under Murdoch umbrella hate it so much but is picking another evil the only option?

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#333

Post by neiman »

amf12 wrote: post #320
neiman wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google evil etc etc aside, they have been decent custodians of their users data. They've been decent custodians to data they force users to give. It's like complimenting whoever stole my bike last year for taking good care of it.

They've been decent custodians to data they force users to give. Fair enough. It's like complimenting whoever stole my bike last year for taking good care of it. I don't necessarily buy this argument. They collect a lot of data, and we could argue whether they need to collect so much data, but that is not necessarily 'stealing' your data.

I put an ENORMOUS amount of effort not to have Google involved in my life and for them not to have ANY of my data, and I constantly find myself failing.

So yes, I feel it's fair to call it stealing my data.

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#334

Post by neiman »

corty wrote: post #261
neiman wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google evil etc etc aside, they have been decent custodians of their users data. They've been decent custodians to data they force users to give. It's like complimenting whoever stole my bike last year for taking good care of it.

And they lost all their data to foreign secret services (the NSA) once. Google never loosing data and taking "good care" of it is a myth that needs to die. The only right way forward is to be parsimonius with data. Never pass it along, never collect it (if possible).

I just want to have a place where I can tick, "Google, please never ever collect any of my data".

But I don't have such a thing, not because it's impossible to create one.

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#335

Post by marcus_holmes »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #327
inopinatus wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving me a choice of two or three mendacious, self-serving, incompetent cliques and then saying the one I grudgingly picked as the temporarily least appalling is what I /wanted/, is a bit of a long bow to draw.

Point soberly taken and understood through the scarring of experience. But then, what's the alternative to the cookie-cutter alternatives? Start yet another micro political party doomed to the fringes? Even Nick Xenophon gave up after a few years. Revolution? If you can't succeed as a political party how are you going to build a revolution? And does the ends justify the everything-in-between, along with the very high…

Never underestimate the huge authoritarian streak in Australia. The Wowsers have always been a powerful force in politics, and the average Aussie loves the smack of firm government.

Most of the problems in Aussie politics can be laid at the door of the Boomers, who vote in idiots because they don't understand the issues and are scared of change.

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#336

Post by berkes »

mcv wrote: post #329
berkes wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying this specific law is any good (I think it is not). But I am saying that when we compare who is to allow or deny us access to news and knowledge, and who should be able to track our every move, a democratic elected goverment is better suited to do so, than a private entity.

That sounds completely contrary to the concept of a free press. If the government gets to decide access to news, then independent checks on the government can become impossible. It would be the end of a free press. This is absolutely a big problem with democracy: on the one hand, it requires a free press to inform voters about the state of the country and the government, but on the other hand, there's no way to guara…

What I meant was not that a democratic government has to be the free press, but that I has to keep laws, checks, balances and regulation to ensure that free press is possible.

And that a government is a better candidate to enable and ensure free press than a private entity: we can see this in action in e.g. China where either Google keeps away from, or companies self-censor to grab some Chinese cash.

Sorry for the confusion.

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#337

Post by opinologo »

eru wrote: post #282
smcl wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia is not (yet?) a Republic

That was probably the least useful thing to criticise in the comment you replied to. I know, I know, pedantry is fun. But I don't think the Queen makes much of a difference to Australia's problems one way or another.

Indeed she did make a difference in 1975 when her representative fired no other than the Prime Minister.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitution...

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#338

Post by postingawayonhn »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #164

Google should just de-list News Corp and the other big media companies that dominate the Australian media industry and who often manipulate elections for their own benefit with one sided heavily biased coverage. Give some breathing space to the smaller players.

I believe the legislation prohibits this. If they delist one news site they must delist all sites or face large fines.

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#340

Post by autisticcurio »

rbg246 wrote: post #325
thisrod wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Australian media do you follow? I'd say that Crikey covers politics as well as the best newspapers do overseas, and most countries dream of having a TV show like 4 Corners. The media is certainly getting smaller—everywhere, not just in Australia—and important things aren't getting reported. The answer to that is pretty boring, though: pay your subscription fees already.

If I may add: theguardian.com/au michaelwest.com.au theconversation.com themonthly.com.au All do decent analysis of policy and economics and holding government to account.

There are some things just never discussed. Do Australians sign a contract when they are born agreeing to the laws imposed on them, or do they sign a contract when they reach 18 years of age agreeing to the laws of the land or is Australia like every other patch of land on this planet bar the Polar regions, which dictates its laws and penalties just like every other dictatorship thats existed past and present? I'm surprised so called democracy's even claim the moral high ground considering many dont teach the laws of the land at school. Democracy is a criminal compromise voted for by idiots, run the security services! The financial system is the best control system no one can buy!
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