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Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

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Re: Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

#31

Post by mschuster91 »

Cantbekhan wrote: post #15

Off-topic but IMHO what is really needed these days is a privacy feature allowing all the UIDs to be changed freely by the user (without the need for rooting and firmware thinkering). Including randomized IMEIs and randomized Android ID (In addition to the already offered randomized MAC and Ad tracking ID changes). Especially IMEIs which are commonly used by many applications and law enforcement to track users (see B…

In Germany it's punishable by law indirectly (https://tipps.computerbild.de/hardware/firmware/imei-nummer-...), in UK it is a direct crime that may yield 5 years of jail time (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/31/notes?view=plai...).

Be fucking careful when you are traveling with a phone that has an IMEI in the software that does not match the one on the sticker.

Re: Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

#32

Post by mpol »

prox wrote: post #3

Is anyone usimg a linux phone? Love to hear use cases. I know about the PinePhone and the Librem, don’t know if there are others.

I am using Sailfish OS on a Sony Xperia XA2. I am using it now for about 1 year. Before that I used Sailfish OS on the original Jolla 1 for 5 years. I have also used a Nokia N9 with Meego Linux, which can be considered a forerunner of Jolla/Sailfish.

It uses Qt, Wayland, Systemd. The original Jolla 1 even used Btrfs, which was deemed a mistake. Sailfish OS is available on more devices, like the Pinephone, Fxtec, Cosmo Communicator and others. If you have the official version for Sony Xperia, you get Alien Dalvik, with which you can run Android apps. I am using Whatsapp and Firefox as Android apps this way. I am still hoping that Signal takes off for mesaging, a native app like Whisperfish is something I would really enjoy. With Whatsapp a native app is not possible, there have been threats for lawsuits.

I am very happy with Sailfish, and have been for 6 years. I enjoy having plain linux on my phone, being able to use ssh as root and having a device that I trust. There are some 'costs' involved, like having less shiny bling and less apps available. Companies like Apple and Google can spend billions on their phone platform. Jolla only has about 100 employees in total. You do have to adjust your expectations somewhat.

Jolla have received criticism about not having open sourced all their software. I do understand that criticism, but that argument doesn't make Apple or Google look any better :) I am curious about where linux phones will go in the next years, but currently Sailfish is good for me.

Re: Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

#33

Post by 627467 »

So, I like the accessibility of physical switches but how are they more trusting than software ones? Or light indicators such as Apple's green Dot?

Already trusting Open Source requires non technical people to trust others who can read the code to vouch for it. Here, we would need to expect an electronics engineer to understand (from looking at a disassembled device) that the switch actually does what it says it does, right?

Re: Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

#34

Post by mpol »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #30
prox wrote: post #3

Is anyone usimg a linux phone? Love to hear use cases. I know about the PinePhone and the Librem, don’t know if there are others.

The answers won't be complete without mentioning the Maemo/Meego series of phones, including the Nokia N900 and N9. The N900 keeps its appeal today because it's fully programmable (even if toolchains are woefully outdated), and the community is still (after 10 years!) vibrant. It's also small, offers a hardware keyboard, has decent battery life, and has the usual gimmicks expected from a smart phone: camera, GPS, GUI…

Just curious, but if you enjoy a Nokia N900, would you not consider the Cosmo Communicator or the Fxtec a good follow-up? It has modern hardware, still a good hardware keyboard. Together with the more updated Sailfish OS you get something much newer and faster.

I can imagine criticism about Jolla not having everything open sourced, but what I remember it was the same situation with Nokia for the N900 and N9. Also, in some respects the UI of Sailfish is somewhat different from Maemo/Meego, not everybody will like that.

Re: Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

#35

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #30
prox wrote: post #3

Is anyone usimg a linux phone? Love to hear use cases. I know about the PinePhone and the Librem, don’t know if there are others.

The answers won't be complete without mentioning the Maemo/Meego series of phones, including the Nokia N900 and N9. The N900 keeps its appeal today because it's fully programmable (even if toolchains are woefully outdated), and the community is still (after 10 years!) vibrant. It's also small, offers a hardware keyboard, has decent battery life, and has the usual gimmicks expected from a smart phone: camera, GPS, GUI…

> The N900 keeps its appeal today because it's fully programmable.

While some of the userspace software has still been developed in the years since Nokia’s abandonment of the phone, the N900's kernel is stuck at an ancient version riddled with security issues, and also the SSL/TLS libraries are outdated. For some years I still used my N900 in airplane mode to listen to music because it had decent sound output on its headphone jack and ran MPD, but I would not recommend connecting an N900 to the internet in this day and age.

Re: Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

#36

Post by ben-schaaf »

627467 wrote: post #33

So, I like the accessibility of physical switches but how are they more trusting than software ones? Or light indicators such as Apple's green Dot? Already trusting Open Source requires non technical people to trust others who can read the code to vouch for it. Here, we would need to expect an electronics engineer to understand (from looking at a disassembled device) that the switch actually does what it says it does…

With software ones you still have to trust the hardware and firmware in addition to the software. With light indicators like Apple's you also need to trust the hardware - and since the designs aren't open it's more difficult to do so - but once verified that they work as advertised having kill switches is a much more active security function than an indicator light.

Re: Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

#37

Post by kop316 »

prox wrote: post #3

Is anyone usimg a linux phone? Love to hear use cases. I know about the PinePhone and the Librem, don’t know if there are others.

I have it in addition to my Android phone. I am actually really impressed on how well it works (I use Mobian). Email, maps, calendar, and web browsing all work. The camera sort of but not really works.

The only thing stopping me from using it as a daily driver is MMS:

https://sr.ht/~anteater/mms-stack/

Ubuntu Touch seems to be the closest to be able to have MMS (it uses Ofono,all of the other distros seem to use Modem Manager). However, it is a bit disappointing as no ground seems to be done on it. I admittedly don't have experience in that, but I would be more than willing to donate time/money if I knew how to.

Re: Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

#38

Post by encom »

supernova87a wrote: post #16

If you're this worried about leakage from signals, cameras, etc. what about the tradeoff of security where now you need to patch and monitor for any attacks on your device, now that you're off of any normal OEM's support? What's the risk of that being done poorly by you, versus having better control over these physical switches?

It's a valid point, and should not be downvoted.

Personally, I consider any code produced by Google to be hostile malware. Meanwhile, I'm quite competent with managing a Linux machine. For me personally, the choice is easy.

The current crop of Freedom Phones are targeted at people like myself who can break things and fix them ourselves. My hope is, in the future, you will be able to install vanilla Debian for example on your phone, which I think even the more paranoid of us would consider safe.

Re: Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

#39

Post by Vai1sail »

627467 wrote: post #33

So, I like the accessibility of physical switches but how are they more trusting than software ones? Or light indicators such as Apple's green Dot? Already trusting Open Source requires non technical people to trust others who can read the code to vouch for it. Here, we would need to expect an electronics engineer to understand (from looking at a disassembled device) that the switch actually does what it says it does…

> Already trusting Open Source requires non technical people to trust others who can read the code to vouch for it

Maybe that's nitpicking, but I would rather say that trusting open source requires to trust the developer won't take the chance of adding malware if they know anybody could read their code. Although, granted, this does not shield from vulnerabilities created in good faith.

Re: Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi

#40

Post by kop316 »

627467 wrote: post #33

So, I like the accessibility of physical switches but how are they more trusting than software ones? Or light indicators such as Apple's green Dot? Already trusting Open Source requires non technical people to trust others who can read the code to vouch for it. Here, we would need to expect an electronics engineer to understand (from looking at a disassembled device) that the switch actually does what it says it does…

You can download the board schematics here:

https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php?title=PinePhone_v1.2

And see exactly what the switches turn on and off. Heck, if you are really paranoid, you can inspect the PCB and the schematics of the individual chips to ensure it does what it does.

The datasheets for the individual chips are here:

https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/PinePhone

EDIT: This has it too: https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/PinePhone_FAQ#What_are_the...

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