Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#391

Post by smsm42 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 6:31 AM UTC

topspin wrote: post #261

smsm42 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardoning Snowden is not likely to be popular is his party, most Republicans aren't very big fans of Snowden. However, it is true that Trump is known for publicly "floating" a lot of ideas that he latter drops if they prove unpopular. But, if everybody cheers him for it it might actually make it more likely to happen.

> Republicans aren't very big fans of Snowden Republicans have grown far more circumspect regarding their faith in intelligence services and Federal LEOs. Many see them as just players in and tools of the establishment political/media complex. At this point I don't think pardoning Snowden would hurt Trump with most Republicans. Certainly the 'Never Trumper' wing of Republicans would involuntarily soil themselves, but…

True, Republicans are now much more sour on FBI and other alphabet agencies than they had been before. I'm not sure they are sour enough yet to embrace Snowden. We'll see.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#392

Post by listenallyall » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:07 AM UTC

darksaints wrote: post #386

listenallyall wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did I defend Trump? All I've stated is that Covid isn't his fault. What seems exhausting to me is spinning every single thing that happens to somehow be the fault of one single person. He's not a monarch, not a dictator, and his power, by design, is quite limited. Why not get rid of governors, state and city governments, Congress, heads of CDC and FDA, postmasters general, school boards, hospital admins, etc. if…

Jacinda Ardern also has limited power. But she's an actual competent leader. One who didn't fart around pretending nothing was wrong for months while competent advisors said the exact opposite. One who didn't act like they got blindsided and started shifting blame after months of doing nothing. One who didn't peddle fake cures and hold mask-optional campaign rallies that directly led to the deaths of his own supporte…

>> whereas if we had Jacinda, maybe a couple hundred.

Lol, no rational person believes that. The USA is not a small, remote, island nation.

https://time.com/5824042/new-zealand-coronavirus-elimination...

Yet if Trump copied Ms. Ardern's lead and postponed our national election in Nov, I'm sure you'd tell me why it was an outrageous and illegal maneuver.

This conversation serves no purpose.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#393

Post by boomboomsubban » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:12 AM UTC

ttyprintk wrote: post #384

boomboomsubban wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For example, he gave the Chinese government information about which computers the NSA had access to. When did he give them what information exactly? >don't think so, he didn't try to bring it up through proper channels first The two sides disagree whether he attempted this. Snowden say he spent tremendous effort trying to report things through the proper channels.

I can't comment on the parent, but here are some disclosures of international capability that Snowden could have kept to himself: - RAMPART-A - Anything collected and shared by Five Eyes would have originated overseas. There's quite a bit of GCHQ material, such as Karma Police - NSA ability to cross airgaps in China - NSA Core (undercover human agents tapping China, South Korea and Germany) and TAREX (target exploita…

First, Snowden did not have much of a chance to selectively leak documents. He gave basically everything he had to journalists and they've sorted it out.

Second, while many of those actions may be constitutional, citizens should know what their government is capable of and deploying against people. And arguing whether a certain program was constitutional seems pointless when they never get punished.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#394

Post by darksaints » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 2:11 PM UTC

listenallyall wrote: post #392

darksaints wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jacinda Ardern also has limited power. But she's an actual competent leader. One who didn't fart around pretending nothing was wrong for months while competent advisors said the exact opposite. One who didn't act like they got blindsided and started shifting blame after months of doing nothing. One who didn't peddle fake cures and hold mask-optional campaign rallies that directly led to the deaths of his own supporte…

>> whereas if we had Jacinda, maybe a couple hundred. Lol, no rational person believes that. The USA is not a small, remote, island nation. https://time.com/5824042/new-zealand-coronavirus-elimination... Yet if Trump copied Ms. Ardern's lead and postponed our national election in Nov, I'm sure you'd tell me why it was an outrageous and illegal maneuver. This conversation serves no purpose.

Lol, New Zealand has 750 visitors per 1000 residents, and the US has 225 visitors per 1000 residents per year. New Zealand may be small, but they're not remote anymore and haven't been for a long time.

Let's not forget that it isn't just New Zealand that has utterly destroyed the idea that leaders have no influence over infection rates. Most of the entire world has done better than the US. Hell, even India has done better than the US, despite their massive problems with high population density and unsanitary urban living conditions.

No rational person thinks that the US response was appropriate, and no rational person thinks that responsibility belongs anywhere else except our dipshit in chief. But sure, keep making excuses for him.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#395

Post by surround » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

bzb4 wrote: post #325

surround wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nice example is uBlock Origin, which was (probably) created as a result of the Snowden leaks. June 2013 - Snowden leaks NSA documents September 2013 - the first commit to the Script HQ extension is made (which soon became HTTP Switchboard, which later became uMatrix and uBlock) https://github.com/gorhill/httpswitchboard/commits/master?af...

Do you have any actual proof other than the fact the script was created months after the leaks?

No, unfortunately. But people weren’t nearly as concerned about online privacy before Snowden.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#396

Post by learc83 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #206

learc83 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn’t they kill her? If you know enough about the CIA to be absolutely certain they will murder Snowden, then surely you know what line he crossed that Chelsea Manning didn’t? You might also want to point out that the torture was solitary confinement for all but 1 hour per day, which I’m no fan of, but just to be clear it wasn’t torture in the water boarding or toenail removal sense.

It's pretty disgusting that solitary -- considered to "cause such severe psychological damage that it is tantamount to torture" -- isn't torturous enough for you, in the "waterboard or toenail removal" sense: "Solitary confinement is so egregious a punishment that in 2011, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment condemned its use, except in exceptional circ…

1. There is a difference between complete deprivation of human contact for months to years (which could be a form of torture) and spending 23 hours a day in a single occupancy cell with an hour outside for exercise with guards and healthcare workers regularly attempting to engage you in conversation (in an attempt to evaluate your mental state). Chelsea Manning's guard's stated they tried to engage her in conversation regularly, but she wasn't responsive. That doesn't sound like purposeful lack of human contact for the purposes of psychological torture.

2. The U.N. Special Rapporteur on Torture is a lawyer in a political position, not a psychiatrist.

3. The studies linked in his report and the article failed were horribly flawed. They examined general population prisoners and prisoners subjected to solitary confinement without taking into account the selection biases that lead to differences between those populations, i.e., prisoners who have behavioral problems are more likely to be selected for solitary confinement.

I think that charging prisoners exorbitant fees to call their family is horrible. I think that not allowing books on programming in prison because the warden is concerned with "hacking" is wrong. Hell I think giving prisoners beds that are less comfortable than what you'd expect guards to sleep on is terrible.

But I don't think those things should be described as torture because they diminish the meaning of the word.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#397

Post by LOVV » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #352

LOVV wrote: post #351

Well, to pardon someone they first need to pass a sentence, right? This didn’t happen yet, and the process would probably take longer than Trump‘s current term. Can someone who is familiar with the US law system shine some light on this matter?

No, one can be pardoned at any time. I thought otherwise until recently, as well.

Thanks a lot for the clarification.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#398

Post by hi41 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 3:38 PM UTC

I am excited by this development. Snowden is a patriot by becoming a whistle blower. I am also saddened by Obama’s complete refusal to pardon Snowden. Why would Obama who is a progressive leader not pardon Snowden. That was a hard thing for me to swallow. I hope Trump hurries and gets it done asap. Snowden has suffered a lot for his ethical actions. I hope he gets to come home and not suffer anymore.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#399

Post by jjoonathan » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

gpm wrote: post #156

jjoonathan wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty standard for novelty accounts to put disclaimers in their details, so I don't think that provides much information one way or another.

Oh, I interpreted the "not a novelty account" option to be "actually Henry Kissinger", which that disclaimer means it probably isn't.

Yeah, my post was underconstrained. I meant to consider possibilities 1 and 2:

    1. Parody role-play of Henry Kissinger ("novelty")
    2. Unironic tribute to Kissinger in the username
    3. Actually Henry Kissinger

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#400

Post by surround » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

ttyprintk wrote: post #298

curiousgal wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly who cares? The guy is actively trying to undermine your (flawed) democracy. Anything he does or says is moot and serves merely as a distraction.

I think parent is trying to draw a trendline toward executive forgiveness. A Trump pardon is different than an Obama pardon. This is about Trump, not Snowden, and not about the issues of the modern surveillance state as demonstrated by Snowden. A Snowden pardon by Trump will have a clause where Snowden promises to appear on stage at a rally. (edit, clarity)

No, that’s not what I’m saying.