Live data from Hacker News

Web by Google (TM)

landshark.io

451–460 of 496 posts

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But none of them have their own ROW to do it, except around small specific regional campuses like Hillsboro. They have dark fiber leases, IRUs, and wavelength circuits. Show me a big FAANG owned and controlled cable from western OR or WA to Colorado, for instance. Doesn't exist. Show me a FAANG owned and controlled path from Hillsboro to Sacramento and the bay area. Doesn't exist. They have IRUs in infrastructure bui…

Of course they don't do it at the scale old telecos are doing it, doesn't mean they are completely new to this kind of thing. Doesn't really take a genius to do this anymore. AWS directly invests in third party companies to lay out intercontinental dark fiber for them, wouldn't take them much to do it themselves if they want to do it on the scale of a teleco, it just isn't a good financial decision to do so at the mo…

You think Zayo is a "old teleco"?

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#452
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why we need a regulator. The old AT&T monopoly was dismantled. Based on talking to IBM insiders, IBM actively neutered itself fearing a similar fate in the late 1980s and early 1990s. But then, with Bush Sr and then Clinton, the rules changed; Microsoft started playing the political game, and essentially avoided a similar fate. There is no antitrust enforcement anymore. Breaking a company once indeed only buys…

Google is both the most dominant it every has been and the most vulnerable it has ever been, at the same time. From what we've seen with GPT-3, we can train one machine learning model by ingesting the entire scraped web and a whole lot of (online/offline?) books, and it can often produce correct answers to questions. The accuracy of those answers, presuming the questions are not subjective ones, is only going to incr…

> Youtube is big, but far from the king

What other alternatives are there for Youtube, that are even in the same region as Youtube?

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#453
post #303

Asking a rhetorical and irritating question - but one which web nerds need to be much better at answering: why, exactly does it matter? Don't get me wrong, I'm totally uncomfortable with a monopoly of this scale; I'm a Firefox user, a Pihole user, a non-FB user. But when people (non nerds) ask me why, it's hard to answer. They're all happy enough: Chrome is fast, AMP is faster, they get to find out the stuff they wan…

Basically one look at the history of monopolies will tell you all you want to know. This is a digital monopoly (well not yet) but heading there quickly, and the public doesn't seem to care. They will care when google starts monetizing services rather than only getting the vast majority of its profits from ads. When you're the only game in town you can start dictating terms unilaterally. Google scares me far more than Apple or Amazon or Facebook. Apple is a hardware company with lots of alternatives, Amazon actually has competition with itself from third party sellers on it's platform, Facebook is just getting old and tired and I predict won't be relevant in 5-8 years, I smell an AOL event coming for them. Google however controls our main source of -information- and that's fucking scary in the digital age.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they don't do it at the scale old telecos are doing it, doesn't mean they are completely new to this kind of thing. Doesn't really take a genius to do this anymore. AWS directly invests in third party companies to lay out intercontinental dark fiber for them, wouldn't take them much to do it themselves if they want to do it on the scale of a teleco, it just isn't a good financial decision to do so at the mo…

You think Zayo is a "old teleco"?

You are just deflecting the main point of the argument now. Companies like Jio have already proven that all you need is to throw money at this problem and it can be solved. You just need to make sure that the money you invested can be earned back.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I advocate for my beliefs on public accounts as well as internally - this account just happened to be what I was logged into is all. The simple fact is these publications are promoted because they are popular, making no comment on accuracy. A massive corporation, even if I trust them as my employer, should never have such massive influence on our public conversation. Popularity is a poor metric, but at least it's not…

The power to promote is just as dangerous if not more dangerous than the power to suppress because it is much harder to make a case against it but can have the exact same effect.

Promotion of any content results in the suppression of other content (inventory isn't infinite). If you were in charge of the algorithm, what would you promote? Considering half of America views CNN the same way you view Breitbart, do you consider that to be a despicable source too?

It's really not as simple as you think.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#456
post #372
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung only has ~50% market share of Android phones in the US ( https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... ), and ~40% in Europe ( https://www.counterpointresearch.com/covid-19-weighs-europea... ). Chrome isn't a "rather small" part of the mobile maker in the West.

Yeah, so half of Android market which has about half of mobile market in US.

The other half isn't a "rather small" part in the West.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Zayo is a "old teleco"?

You are just deflecting the main point of the argument now. Companies like Jio have already proven that all you need is to throw money at this problem and it can be solved. You just need to make sure that the money you invested can be earned back.

With all due respect I sincerely doubt you have ever had the equivalent of "enable" or "configure" access on the core routers of any significant ISP. Not anything in the top 1500 worldwide by CAIDA ASrank size and customer AS, peer AS measurement scale.

Using jio as an example of "why don't the faangs just build their own massive ISPs at OSI layer 1 by throwing money at it" is so dreadfully wrong and misinformed I won't even dignify it with a further response.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, an open-standard that allows Google to create a walled garden. But when has google ever been for an "open" internet? Never because an open internet doesn't make money, but then again that has never been Google's philosophy. AMP does dictate the internet in a way that forces the user to see and do how Google wants you to see and do. If Google was for open standards, I should have the ability to turn off googl…

> Alright, an open-standard that allows Google to create a walled garden. This doesn't make sense. > AMP does dictate the internet in a way that forces the user to see and do how Google wants you to see and do. This doesn't follow. AMP doesn't force the user to do anything. It encourages website creators to do specific things when building certain kinds of sites. And we're not even talking about AMP, but about signed…

I am not deliberately avoiding the connects. However I find interest in your passive-aggressive tone and that your working for a company with an agenda to take over the internet; so it seems, it goes hand in hand. Maybe I read your comment wrong but I take it as your assuming myself as masochistic and indie-dev, if so, please get terminology correct and call me cynical because I despise all; if not everything as I see "indie" as a fail of a word within internet terminology.

My philosophy is you should always build your own rather then jumping on the next bandwagon. You should always try to reinvent the wheel with your own tools but hey, what ever floats the boat. I loathe using github, I loathe instragram, facebook, et cetera. I run my infrastructure for what I think is for the good of the internet. I've been working as SysAdmin, SysOp, NetAdmin with colocatation of my own servers to ensure I have my own open internet space. I know how much work is required, it's not an easy quest and I know how shit the internet has become since the age of 13 when I had my first dedicated server at 14; I'm 31. But that's just my view and how I was brought up because frameworks did not exist back then. You made a product and then offered that for free. Infamously PHPNuke for CMS, e107, PHPBB. But Google doesn't even make it easy to work with. Almost as they don't want other people to operate the internet outside of their territory.

So lets ignore what I wrote. I wrote it without thought and more as a grunt as it is a Sunday, 1:24am (now 2:25am). I've not got the strongest skills in debate otherwise I would be a politician and in the morning I will probably face palm. So lets just jump to your questions and save the internet bandwidth. I'll agree to disagree.

> What is the walled garden you're accusing Google of creating? I am accusing google of creating an closed ecosystem of google objects. Objects known as Gmail, GCloud, GAmp, YouTube, GplayStore, Adsense, Google Mobile Phones to name a few. that record, monitor, collect and sell users information for profit without knowledge of the user.

A walled garden is just a modern buzz word for "closed platform" which is where the service provider controls the data and data flow within. To which Google fits the criteria.

Some of them are services created are to provide the user and I would argue they lay a foundation of a trap to encourage the user to a following that google would like.

Such as - Requiring to have a account for all services - Google using the private data of these services with partnerships to create custom answers for the user

- Captcha Got to stop robots somehow, but when its repeated for on every page by a service that google offers because your IP range isn't within Google's liked list. Most site use this service, which I'm sure you would argue is the owners choice.

> How does an open standard allow Google to create it? Because someone has to create the standard in the first place. I could create a new protocol and brand it as open standard. The standards that google have are not open in the sense of transparency and that I feel are used for mistrust. They exist, you can use it for yourself, but the standard they created were forcefully to push everyone else in the same way

I am tired and want bed, it shows in this message. There is no point in continuing this debate because I won't change your mind and you won't change mine. I'm sure you'll take the stance of "I won" because that's the type of person you are. But I dislike google, Google is destroying the internet those too blind to see it, I pity them. What I've seen from the age of 13 to what I've seen now is not innovation its destruction. It's just regurgitated shite.

I'll agree to disagree, because I have my own views which I don't have time spending hours upon to make them expressible.

I said my dues, good night.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#459
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why we need a regulator. The old AT&T monopoly was dismantled. Based on talking to IBM insiders, IBM actively neutered itself fearing a similar fate in the late 1980s and early 1990s. But then, with Bush Sr and then Clinton, the rules changed; Microsoft started playing the political game, and essentially avoided a similar fate. There is no antitrust enforcement anymore. Breaking a company once indeed only buys…

Google is both the most dominant it every has been and the most vulnerable it has ever been, at the same time. From what we've seen with GPT-3, we can train one machine learning model by ingesting the entire scraped web and a whole lot of (online/offline?) books, and it can often produce correct answers to questions. The accuracy of those answers, presuming the questions are not subjective ones, is only going to incr…

GPT-3 does not produce accurate answers to questions in any form. It produces realistic looking text in response to prompts. Sometimes that can look like it is answering questions but that is not the goal nor what it was built to do in any way.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#460
post #84

The problem is that, IMO, centralization of the internet is simply the natural course. Especially when people seem to care so little. Centralization is cheaper, easier to monetize, easier to control, easier to update and upgrade. That's why people prefer Discord to IRC, that's why people prefer Slack to SMTP or Jabber, that's why for many people these days the distinction between git and GitHub is blurry. I suspect t…

Meh, I think the longest lasting protocols are the decentralised ones, the good ones just can’t fail by design. SMTP is still going very strong, BitTorrent isn’t going away, bitcoin won’t die anytime soon slack/discord will probably disappear and be replaced by another closed system until we find the right way to do real time chat in a decentralised way.

until we find the right way to do real time chat in a decentralised way

Isn't that what IRC was supposed to be? But as others have pointed out, it's trivial to roll your own chat software and monetize it. You can't do that with a decentralized standard.

Post reply on HN