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A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

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Re: A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

#71

Post by sushshshsh »

Swizec wrote: post #69
logicslave12 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was working on a “startup”/kinda just unemployed for two years. I studied leetcode hard, and got hired into a 300k a year job at FAANG. I know nothing about testing, git, software process, roll outs, dev ops, etc. I barely know how to do software engineering. What an idiotic hiring process.

That’s because at FAANG those problems are already solved. And there’s a team of experts working on each of them. Maybe multiple teams. Your job is to be a clever code monkey. The Process will take care of turning your coding into engineering. Leetcode interviews are great at testing for just that. A high IQ willing to solve arbitrary puzzles just because someone said “solve this”

Even at my mid tier company we have processes around the crucial but (to me) boring parts of the software industry, which involve building, deployment, version control, access control, connection drivers, requirements gathering, provisioning of resources, maintenance...

The list goes on and on and if someone doesn't do any of these things, the whole operation will grind to a halt. And absolutely none of these procedures involve reversing a linked list or traversing a binary tree inorder (maybe git does but that's an implementation detail hidden from me ^.^)

Re: A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

#72

Post by sushshshsh »

mettamage wrote: post #46
logicslave12 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was working on a “startup”/kinda just unemployed for two years. I studied leetcode hard, and got hired into a 300k a year job at FAANG. I know nothing about testing, git, software process, roll outs, dev ops, etc. I barely know how to do software engineering. What an idiotic hiring process.

How did you get past the resume screening? Or are you from the US, because then it's much easier to get past the screeming, or so it seems. I have yet to be invited for so much as an HR call when it comes to FAANG (bachelor/master CS from a Dutch university). Maybe I'm not getting past the application tracking system?

Most likely you either don't have 5 years of professional experience or they are filtering you based on visa/citizenship status. The industry is very broken.

Re: A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

#73

Post by PragmaticPulp »

agentultra wrote: post #68

I find this little sub-industry building up around, “the coding interview,” to be highly strange. Where are the papers that correlate this niche, specialized skill to general job performance and productivity? I get that at certain problem domains the asymptotic complexity becomes a baseline for performance so I’m not against testing people’s knowledge where it’s appropriate. But is it really the dominating skill? Rea…

> Where are the papers that correlate this niche, specialized skill to general job performance and productivity?

I would love to read this research if it existed in the public domain. However, much of this comes down to trade secrets and business practices. It's also not very amenable to controlled studies.

Practically speaking, these companies have a lot at stake in their hiring process. It's strange that so many people are convinced that the Big N companies are shooting themselves in the foot or otherwise making poor decisions with these interview processes.

Leetcode-style interviews might not have supporting research in the public domain, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. That is, just because the research doesn't exist doesn't mean that the Leetcode interviews are bad or worse than the alternatives.

Even if companies did eliminate Leetcode-style interviews, they have to replace it with some other alternative. Most of these criticisms fail to suggest actual replacement interview processes.

Re: A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

#74

Post by [deleted] »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #65
logicslave12 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was working on a “startup”/kinda just unemployed for two years. I studied leetcode hard, and got hired into a 300k a year job at FAANG. I know nothing about testing, git, software process, roll outs, dev ops, etc. I barely know how to do software engineering. What an idiotic hiring process.

Interviews are only partially about testing your body of experience. They're also supposed to test your aptitude and ability to grow in the future. If you were capable of studying Leetcode so hard that you mastered the interview process at one of the most selective software companies in the world in only a few months, it's not much of a stretch to imagine that you could apply that same aptitude, ambition, and ability…

[deleted]

Re: A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

#75

Post by biztos »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #67
biztos wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am trying to resist cynicism, but I too am thinking that after my upcoming sabbatical if I want to get top dollar I should just invest in power-grinding at the leetcode gym. Still hoping to find a friendly startup though, since some of the MegaCorps are lifestyle-incompatible and I'm already used to making a lot less than Googlebucks.

> after my upcoming sabbatical if I want to get top dollar I should just invest in power-grinding at the leetcode gym Given that top dollar can mean potentially a six-figure raise over median salaries, that doesn't exactly seem like a bad deal. All things considered, Leetcode is remarkably accessible relative to the barriers of entry in other high-paying fields like law, medicine, certain finance careers, and so on.…

Actually I love leetcode (the website) and do it for fun once in a while, and if I decide to go for a big grind later on then I don't think I'll particularly mind that part even if it doesn't get me my ticket to the Google Bus.

The risk of cynicism is that I've been doing this for 25 years or so and there are some things I'm quite good at that can add a lot of value to a company, but it appears that the highest-paying outfits will judge me on things that are at best very tangentially related to how I can make/save them money.

Sorry if my comment came off as anti-leetcode, I have a low opinion of the thing so many people use it for, not the site itself. Before hearing of my impending sabbatical I was even planning to subscribe to the "pro" level and build it into my work routine, just as way of differently exercising my brain once or twice a week.

Re: A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

#76

Post by username90 »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #66
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interviews are only partially about testing your body of experience. They're also supposed to test your aptitude and ability to grow in the future. If you were capable of studying Leetcode so hard that you mastered the interview process at one of the most selective software companies in the world in only a few months, it's not much of a stretch to imagine that you could apply that same aptitude, ambition, and ability…

> it's not much of a stretch to imagine that you could apply that same aptitude, ambition, and ability to learn quickly toward picking up the basics of git, dev ops, and so on. But you already have your reward, right? I’m not sure how much ambition is left after you actually get the job.

Promotions can double your salary or more from that level so people are plenty motivated.

Re: A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

#77

Post by PragmaticPulp »

biztos wrote: post #75
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after my upcoming sabbatical if I want to get top dollar I should just invest in power-grinding at the leetcode gym Given that top dollar can mean potentially a six-figure raise over median salaries, that doesn't exactly seem like a bad deal. All things considered, Leetcode is remarkably accessible relative to the barriers of entry in other high-paying fields like law, medicine, certain finance careers, and so on.…

Actually I love leetcode (the website) and do it for fun once in a while, and if I decide to go for a big grind later on then I don't think I'll particularly mind that part even if it doesn't get me my ticket to the Google Bus. The risk of cynicism is that I've been doing this for 25 years or so and there are some things I'm quite good at that can add a lot of value to a company, but it appears that the highest-payin…

> but it appears that the highest-paying outfits will judge me on things that are at best very tangentially related to how I can make/save them money.

IMO, this is a popular misconception but it's not really reflective of reality.

Leetcode is ultra-popular with new college grades and people with a few years of experience who want to break into Big-N. As such, the vast majority of Leetcode discussions online revolve around that demographic.

It's true that the Big-N companies will still be heavy on the algorithmic interview questions, but it's not true that they'll ignore everything else on your resume. The early 20-somethings talking about Leetcode online don't have a long resume to point to, so Leetcode is the focus. If you show up with a 25-year career of successes, you're going to have a very different interview experience.

Re: A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

#78

Post by anon349852034 »

digianarchist wrote: post #21

It's becoming obvious to me that my time is better spent learning to solve these riddles rather than actually becoming a better developer. I have a job search coming up at the end of the year and whilst I've managed to largely avoid companies that ask this type of question, I believe it's seriously constraining my career. I can't speak for everyone but the whiteboard interview has prevented me from leaving jobs earli…

I have 2 friends who work at the Amazon office in Denver. Both work on boring projects utilizing internal tools Amazon built over the years and completely hate their lives. But the salary and stock options make them stick around. You can look at this as "Omg, this is total shit. I'd never want to work here." or "I don't mind suffering 4 years to get fully vested, get the fuck out of dodge and enjoy retirement a little earlier than others." Both of my friends picked the latter.

Re: A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

#79

Post by Swizec »

sushshshsh wrote: post #71
Swizec wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because at FAANG those problems are already solved. And there’s a team of experts working on each of them. Maybe multiple teams. Your job is to be a clever code monkey. The Process will take care of turning your coding into engineering. Leetcode interviews are great at testing for just that. A high IQ willing to solve arbitrary puzzles just because someone said “solve this”

Even at my mid tier company we have processes around the crucial but (to me) boring parts of the software industry, which involve building, deployment, version control, access control, connection drivers, requirements gathering, provisioning of resources, maintenance... The list goes on and on and if someone doesn't do any of these things, the whole operation will grind to a halt. And absolutely none of these procedu…

Correct. And as far as I can tell, devops folks don’t do leetcode interviews. Most SREs don’t either.

At my last interview process (in June) I was being hired into a more seasoned role where experience matters more than code chops. There was an algorithms question but the biggest weight was put on the “Can you design a distributed microservice infrastructure with good tradeoffs and solid relational modeling”

Series A company so it’s conceivable that I’ll be involved in all parts of the stack.

If I just did well on algorithms (I didn’t) and nothing else, it would be a hard no hire. But they were very impressed when I said “Eh for this load, you don’t need horizontal scaling except for redundancy”

Re: A guide to learning algorithms through LeetCode

#80

Post by username90 »

sushshshsh wrote: post #71
Swizec wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because at FAANG those problems are already solved. And there’s a team of experts working on each of them. Maybe multiple teams. Your job is to be a clever code monkey. The Process will take care of turning your coding into engineering. Leetcode interviews are great at testing for just that. A high IQ willing to solve arbitrary puzzles just because someone said “solve this”

Even at my mid tier company we have processes around the crucial but (to me) boring parts of the software industry, which involve building, deployment, version control, access control, connection drivers, requirements gathering, provisioning of resources, maintenance... The list goes on and on and if someone doesn't do any of these things, the whole operation will grind to a halt. And absolutely none of these procedu…

But people are taught the basic boring skills required to deliver value in a big org in the first few months and very few fail to learn them in that time, they are by far the easiest skills to teach in software development so it doesn't make much sense to test it when hiring.
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