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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#161

Post by paul7986 »

kbos87 wrote: post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

You and others here questioning the full veracity of this article says to me the media is crap! All headlines and clickbait that too many people read only such headlines and believe it's the end of the world almost.

Maybe one day the media will be forced to change for the better of society!!! As of now too many people are sheep to it (all sides)... I find local media in my small town city to be much more digestible and better for society.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#162

Post by jeffbee »

ghaff wrote: post #94
tjr225 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture and things to do include a lot more than just networking and museums. One example for instance is the vast amount of unique natural beauty surrounding the Bay Area. Even rural places that have that are also expensive- though admittedly not nearly as much so. This is generally reflected in salary though.

If nature's your priority though, you don't live in SF or SV proper. You live in the Santa Cruz mountains, Marin, or further north along the coast or in the mountains (or in the Sierras). Those aren't cheap either in many cases of course until you really get out of Bay Area commuting range.

I don't think this is generally true. You can bike right out of San Francisco over the Golden Gate Bridge and be away from the city in minutes. You can walk or bike out of the west side of silicon valley into a huge area of contiguous parkland. If you leave San Jose in the right direction you could hike for days without seeing anyone.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#163

Post by zzzzzzzza »

wwwwwwwww wrote: post #112
paul_f wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semantics, we all know what the poster meant. Whatever the cause, the homeless make large swaths of San Francisco unappealing, especially for people with young families. BTW, quite the irony that the most liberal city in the country has the biggest homeless problem. Whatever they're doing isn't working, maybe they should try something different?

Again, its society and its lack of compassion does it. Not "the homeless".

or maybe just prop 13

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#164

Post by [deleted] »

vmception wrote: post #57
ravenstine wrote: post #47

Putting any valid criticism of this article aside, anecdotally, I know a bunch of people who have either left or are in the process of leaving California in the last few months. One of them just left SF. In other news, one of my cousins is seriously working towards moving out of NY. 3 of my team members have moved to smaller parts of the country. Simply speaking, my gut tells me this isn't just about San Francisco. T…

> I would love to live in a city if it didn't both punish success and fail to help those whom are truly in need. I’ve never heard this put so succinctly, or I can relate to it more now. I like dating “spiritual” women but I have seriously considered living in a shittier place in SF so they didn't feel uneasy or “misaligned” as they say. I have literally heard “makes me suspicious” [0]. Working professionals love the…

[deleted]

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#165

Post by fermienrico »

wwwwwwwww wrote: post #59
roenxi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All analogies break down fairly quickly, so I'll preface this with a clear vote of support for what you said. But in this case the purpose of a hospital is to provide for the sick. The purpose of a city is to do the opposite of homelessness - a city is a massive collection of homes. The existence of a large homeless population is concerning for reasons you allude to, but because a more appropriate analogy might be "t…

> the purpose of a hospital is to provide for the sick And the purpose of society is to provide for its people. All of them.

You need to realize that saying "Homeless people make cities uninviting" does not mean people are against solving the problem of homelessness.

It is unquestionably, irrefutably, unarguably true that seeing homeless people everywhere in the city is indeed uninviting.

I agree, we should fix homelessness. But saying that "Homelessness should not be criticized" is unproductive. In fact, criticizing homelessness is how we can force the governments to improve the situation.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#166

Post by paul7986 »

pyrrhotech wrote: post #158

Not sure why anyone would choose to live in SF except for geographic-specific opportunities. It's a dirty, overcrowded and high tax pit, and everyone living there that isn't in tech or finance hates you for your success.

Now with remote work there's no need to be in such an environment!

My memories from each visit is the smell of urine and people who need help using bullhorns to scream their thoughts. I thought to myself this is the charm of San Francisco (circa 2008) I use to hear about in song?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#167

Post by tzs »

cjlars wrote: post #8
dclusin wrote: post #6

I got a job offer from Capital One several years ago in Richmond, VA. I liked the location and the company but my current gig is paying over twice as much in San Jose, CA. I just don't see this panning out on a large scale once people realize that their paychecks will also drop significantly when they move away.

Three possibilities: 1. All the bay area companies realize they can employ the best talent remotely from around the country (globe?) successfully. The SF pay premium drops. 2. Bay Area companies pay according to cost of living, many remotely. Some people move, some stay. SF pay premium holds. 3. Everyone realizes the pre pandemic normal was right all along and having a lot of talented people in the same building matt…

What probably makes the most sense for a business that has N offices plus remote workers who can live pretty much anywhere they want and still do their work is to have N+1 pay scales.

These would be one pay scale at each office for the workers in that office, and one pay scale for all remote workers.

The pay scales for each office would take into account the cost of living in the area of that office.

The pay scale for remote workers would not take into account the cost of living of any particular employee's location.

This is because as far as the company is concerned, "remote" is one location. All that they need to do is pay enough so that they can fill all their remote openings.

That's already how they do things within cities. Cost of living varies considerable from neighborhood to neighborhood in most big cites but do you often see companies having different pay scales on a per neighborhood basis? When I worked at a company in Santa Monica, for instance, I don't think anyone doing the same job with the same experience as me would have gotten very far saying the company needs to pay them more than me because they lived in Beverly Hills and I lived in Pasadena.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#168

Post by tmpz22 »

pyrrhotech wrote: post #158

Not sure why anyone would choose to live in SF except for geographic-specific opportunities. It's a dirty, overcrowded and high tax pit, and everyone living there that isn't in tech or finance hates you for your success.

It's still got pockets of extreme beauty where you can for the most part ignore the problems, there's also a strong contingent of "lifers" who would go down with the ship if a small comet was headed to destroy the city.

Also a lot of people hanging on to their property values as their entire nest egg.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#170

Post by fermienrico »

San Francisco (and the general bay area) is one of the shittiest places in the US I have ever lived.

Not because there is trash everywhere, the infrastructure is crumbling, the goverment is dysfunctional, the housing mafia won't let high rises rise and provide public transportation for higher density - all these things are true, but mainly because it stays shitty in this feedback loop - more talent leads to more companies settling here which leads to more talent which leads to even more companies settling here.

This feedback loop is the only reason SF bay area is surviving. Since for decades things haven't improved, it is not surprising why people are leaving. Once the feedback loop exits, it is a downward spiral from now on.

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