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Web by Google (TM)

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351–360 of 496 posts

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#351
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working in an architecture for a semi-decentralized, some-of-the-web crawler and search engine to try to address some of the problems with Google. Basically affinity groups maintain lists of links (sort of like social bookmarking) that are the crawl root urls. Crawling comes from Common Crawl plus updates for recency. Groups can pool resources to run their own indexes and receive a share of the profits from text…

Is there anything that I can follow? I'm very interested in this -- I was considering making something similar myself.

I'll give you a shout when I publish the first draft. From your profile you seem like a pretty easy guy to reach. :)

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not whataboutism, the first line of my comment included the agreement clause: "all valid points".

Adding a disclaimer like that doesn't change the intent nor the effect of the comment. That's like saying 'With all due respect' just before insulting someone.

Even my 6-yr-old knows starting a sentence with "Not to be rude but..." is surely to be followed by a rude statement. I would hope anyone commenting on HN sees this as well.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#353
post #207
post #201

With our implicit mass approval, the 'Constitution' of the modern Web is being authored by a few giant tech companies. This 'Constitution' will give us the Web of a few giant tech companies, for those few giant tech companies, by those few giant tech companies. Many here on HN, including me, wish we could have a Web of the people, for the people, by the people.

The individual (and so also teams of individuals) have never had more powerful technology available to build websites and web apps, and access to be able to put amazing things online than right now. We _should_ be able to do all kinds of things previously unimaginable. When people start caring about competition and a healthier ecosystem more, I don't think it will take long for good competition to arise, the issue ri…

> * The individual (and so also teams of individuals) have never had more powerful technology*

The issue, as always, is relative power—which absolutely skews heavily in Google's favor. Individuals accessing the web today have far less relative power than 25 years ago, even if they can accomplish "more" with less effort.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#354
post #261

The real mystery is why nobody has ever been able to do better search than Google, or at least just as good. Of course search is really hard, but how is it possible that huge companies with nearly infinite money and talent (MS / Apple / Amazon) were never able to do it? MS actually tried; it's unclear if the others even gave it a thought. The rest of Google is different. I use Gmail but could easily switch. I've not…

> The real mystery is why nobody has ever been able to do better search than Google, or at least just as good.

Google's search is the way it is now because they've now had 20 years to work on it. To create search of similar quality you'll need to spend a comparable amount of time (during which Google will not rest on laurels, but will continue to evolve).

It would've been great if someone took the pains to implement, maintain and evolve a search similar to Google's at the time when Google became available (or a few years after that). Then it's possible we would have two high quality search engines now.

But even that is a simplistic view of things. Everything that Google ultimately has feeds into its search. Google Translate? Helps Google understand pages in multiple languages. Google Maps? Helps Google learn people behaviour, places of interest, businesses etc. Google Patents, Groups, Books? Provide vast amounts of natural text to train models on. And so on and so on. A "just as good" search needs all (or nearly all that) that to become just as good.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect people optimising for google over the last, c. 20 years has made the difference. ie., people have spent years writing their sites explicitly with google SEO in-mind... add-in all the data google has via adwords...

Why can't other search engines just hook into those same signals though?

Because they don't have the traffic/market share to do that. And it's not just search. Every single Google property ultimately feeds into Google's search engine.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#356
post #326
post #303

Asking a rhetorical and irritating question - but one which web nerds need to be much better at answering: why, exactly does it matter? Don't get me wrong, I'm totally uncomfortable with a monopoly of this scale; I'm a Firefox user, a Pihole user, a non-FB user. But when people (non nerds) ask me why, it's hard to answer. They're all happy enough: Chrome is fast, AMP is faster, they get to find out the stuff they wan…

Having any infrastructure controlled by a publicly traded corporation has enormous historical precedent to lead to the dissolution of that infrastructure for shareholder profit. Once Google feels comfortable with doing so not allowing arbitrary routing in Chrome will be on the table to control what websites people visit. The only things stopping that is a feeble threat of state intervention or the threat of competiti…

Even if Google takes Chrome proprietary in the future, Microsoft and others can continue on their forks. That's the beauty of open source in this case.

As for SPDY, standards bodies like to "pave the cowpaths" so they codify existing implementations. Apple and Mozilla supported SPDY, it eventually became http/2 as you say, and then everyone dropped support for SPDY. This sounds like everything worked as intended.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#357
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something we (people who work in tech) should be acutely aware of is causing unnecessary distractions from important issues. When there's a discussion about the Google very often the first few comments are about how some other tech company also does something unsavory. This is a thread about how Google's engineers are actively working to take over the web as we know it and become the gatekeepers to all the benefit (n…

Stop gatekeeping. This same thing happened on the last thread about Google. Discourse is full of distractions and side topics and healthy diversions, thats what makes it interesting. Not everything has to be perfectly efficient like a well run board meeting complete with agenda and minutes taken. I'm all for a healthy avoidance of bikeshedding and derailment but this isn't a derailment. This is a tangential anecdote…

That's not what gatekeeping means. Also, it is derailment, it's the definition of what-about-ism, In a discussion about Google dominating the web a "what about Facebook's walled garden" is a completely different issue.

Also, what does this have to do with bikeshedding? Both Facebook AND Google are serious issues.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something we (people who work in tech) should be acutely aware of is causing unnecessary distractions from important issues. When there's a discussion about the Google very often the first few comments are about how some other tech company also does something unsavory. This is a thread about how Google's engineers are actively working to take over the web as we know it and become the gatekeepers to all the benefit (n…

Worth noting that all sorts of entities employ people to do PR on internet forums, and redirecting and deflecting is a crucial part of their tactics. Not saying that this is happening here, but forums need to be resilent and really focus hard on the issue at hand or be completely played by the professionals.

For me, these submissions are interesting because they surface concerns that my admittedly atypical day to day behaviors shelter me from. For instance, it takes a bit of effort to remember that for some the Facebook app is the internet, and it might be hard to understand the difference between ads and organic search results.

Ultimately though, how I engage with comments is going to be a product of my biases and opinions as an informed technical person, which in cases like this might lend support to countervailing points despite the fact that I find the primary content valuable.

I also find that I'll very frequently close the top couple of comments to look for other perspectives. That approach seems sufficient this this case.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#359

Completely agree! Google also plays a part in majority of websites. Pretty much every website has to call at least one if not two or more domains owned by Google. Analytics, DoubleClick, fonts... it's not looking healthy.

Not to mention Google owning one of the leading front end frameworks - Angular!

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#360
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that all sorts of entities employ people to do PR on internet forums, and redirecting and deflecting is a crucial part of their tactics. Not saying that this is happening here, but forums need to be resilent and really focus hard on the issue at hand or be completely played by the professionals.

It's really impressive how quickly how posts that criticize Google and Facebook are downvoted.

I think a lot of the time this is because people aren't careful about thinking through their additional criticisms and rely on their general feeling of "I'm upset with X and this appears bad on the surface" to suffice. When people call out the obvious faults with the argument, people take it as defending the company rather than pointing out faulty assumptions (probably both).

A simple example of this is 'Google abandons products.' it's been more and less teue at different times, but it's almost always presented as a truism when the reality is more nuanced, and depends on a bunch of factors (is it a paid product, is it out of beta, do they publish a support lifetime, etc.) Google do seem to abandon a lot of stuff, but they also have a lot of stuff which can skew perceptions if you are mostly aware of certain products, and they seem to follow a sort of consistency as to how likely they are to persist.

An overly broad assertion about Google abandoning products may be met with responses like thus, even if the people responding agree that Google does it more than others. That's not defending Google because it's Google, it's adding nuance to a discussion (there are of course just defenders).

Note: I'm not trying to argue this Google criticism, it's used as an example. Even if you think this is a bad example because that's not how you see this argument usually played out, it's probably more constructive to discuss communication strategies and misunderstandings than to rehash a very played out Google criticism here more than I've done.

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