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Web by Google (TM)

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Re: Web by Google (TM)

#331

Post by biztos »

Const-me wrote: post #327
JadeNB wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes me wonder if it might be useful, as a public service, to have some kind of free business listing that (with your permission) automatically duplicates what you put on Facebook, just to encourage people to at least be discoverable outside that walled garden. You know that Facebook would immediately start either offering incentives to keep all your data in the walled garden, or spreading FUD about the duplica…

They can also remove that integration any moment they like, by revoking an app ID. Very likely they'll be able to find a paragraph in their developer program T&C they can claim was violated by GP.

I agree and for these reasons won't be the one to try it.

It's funny (in a sad way) but even for my friends who own restaurants, where I'd be more than happy to give them free hosting or help them upload stuff or whatever, they don't see anything other than FB as worth the effort even to just keep track of.

Obviously that's not universally true, plenty of places (especially higher-end ones, and ones with significant delivery business) have dedicated web sites that are kept up to date.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#332

Post by mrmonkeyman »

throwaway45349 wrote: post #324
jacquesm wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice of you to speak out. If I were working at Google I'd be more worried about Facebook too. Because your paycheck more or less depends on you being able to tell yourself that you are working for 'the good guys'. But in my book both are equally rotten, it's just that this thread is about Google, not about Facebook and that makes these clear attempts at deflection. Google does plenty to spread misinformation as well,…

> Youtube is a sewer giving outright conspiracy nutcases a platform, they continuously promote Breitbart, infowars and other despicable websites Well, glad you're not in charge, then. If these publications really are crackpots then surely people will stop reading them? Freedom of speech and all that. Disclosure: Googler.

[dead]

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#333

Post by prox »

neves wrote: post #315
UweSchmidt wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that all sorts of entities employ people to do PR on internet forums, and redirecting and deflecting is a crucial part of their tactics. Not saying that this is happening here, but forums need to be resilent and really focus hard on the issue at hand or be completely played by the professionals.

They don't need to be so Machiavellian. This forum is filled with Google and Facebook engineers. Some of them sincerely don't see anything bad in their companies. Others probably want to protect their stock options.

I am always amazed that being negative about Amazon is stomped out quickly in general. Just my experience where I wonder if this is by a team or they just have a lot fans.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#334

Post by prox »

vageli wrote: post #300
malnourish wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this claim often and while I don't deny its possibility I have yet to see any evidence to substantiate it.

> I see this claim often and while I don't deny its possibility I have yet to see any evidence to substantiate it. There have been news articles about governments employing this practice [0], so it is not much of a stretch to imagine corporations doing it. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896

Try being negative about Amazon (not even AWS) I noticed that’s actually pretty hard.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#335

Post by ramon »

andrewkdinh wrote: post #280
ramon wrote: post #206

I myself only build websites with Google Authentication I don't see any other competitor in this space everyone has a Google account and I don't have to deal with Infosec. Who doesn't have a Google account? Yes Google rules the web and there's not much we can do but live with it, I also like the fact that Google gives us a bunch of things for free and many people don't take this into account. Think about all the free…

I hate when websites do this. I don’t use anything Google unless I’m forced to (work email, Google Drive for my school, etc.). And unless I absolutely need to use your site, I will avoid it like the plague. It’s not just limited to Google; it’s for any site providing only third-party OAuth login. I can never remember which one I signed in with, and if that service ever shuts down, it’ll be a pain to figure which of t…

I just don't understand where all this hate is coming from I don't hate Google for giving me free stuff and collecting my information I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't care. I understand that people might feel bad about being monitored and all but what can we do we live in a society full of internet connected stuff we're going to be monitored no matter what anyways I don't hate companies for it at all. Imagine this the majority of the Global phones are Android that means that the majority of the world has a Google account just because of the Android phone registration. Google is the world's largest source of information hub and I don't have anything against them or any other huge IT company if they're doing stuff good for us let it be, I'm a Gmail user and I use Google and I host my stuff in Google too so I'm all in for Google, Microsoft, Linux you name it! No hates here.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#336

Post by lazyjeff »

bambax wrote: post #261

The real mystery is why nobody has ever been able to do better search than Google, or at least just as good. Of course search is really hard, but how is it possible that huge companies with nearly infinite money and talent (MS / Apple / Amazon) were never able to do it? MS actually tried; it's unclear if the others even gave it a thought. The rest of Google is different. I use Gmail but could easily switch. I've not…

I did my Ph.D. in information retrieval and had studied the workings of the 3 major search engines from the inside during various points about a decade ago.

Without giving away any trade secrets, part of it is the power of search behavior data (for example, what you click on after a search, how long before you go back to the search page, etc.). The more popular your search engine, the more search behavior data you have, which makes the search results better especially for tail queries (the less common searches).

So then you attract more searchers, and it's a cycle that is hard for a newcomer to break into. It's why academia has given up on competing with commercial search engines in the web space, and why alternative search engines are just begging at the table right now.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#337

Post by true_religion »

prox wrote: post #333
neves wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need to be so Machiavellian. This forum is filled with Google and Facebook engineers. Some of them sincerely don't see anything bad in their companies. Others probably want to protect their stock options.

I am always amazed that being negative about Amazon is stomped out quickly in general. Just my experience where I wonder if this is by a team or they just have a lot fans.

Probably fans. It’s not easy to get support against Amazon when they are still delivering the majority of people‘a packages.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#338

Post by jacquesm »

throwaway45349 wrote: post #324
jacquesm wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice of you to speak out. If I were working at Google I'd be more worried about Facebook too. Because your paycheck more or less depends on you being able to tell yourself that you are working for 'the good guys'. But in my book both are equally rotten, it's just that this thread is about Google, not about Facebook and that makes these clear attempts at deflection. Google does plenty to spread misinformation as well,…

> Youtube is a sewer giving outright conspiracy nutcases a platform, they continuously promote Breitbart, infowars and other despicable websites Well, glad you're not in charge, then. If these publications really are crackpots then surely people will stop reading them? Freedom of speech and all that. Disclosure: Googler.

This has nothing to do with free speech, if you want to make that argument then please at least familiarize yourself with what the term actually means in this context. Google is actively promoting these sites, which has nothing to do with censoring them.

If you really are a Googler - any anonymous coward can say that - you're not doing Google a service.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#339

Post by rch »

onion2k wrote: post #199
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #103

A lot of talk in this article about Google capturing the whole web, all valid points, but I find the Facebook walled garden even more terrifying. I see people now, often in online school parent groups I'm a part of, etc. who cannot even use email anymore, who don't use web pages at all, they get all their information through Facebook groups and Facebook, and only talk through Facebook messenger or sometimes SMS. E-ma…

Something we (people who work in tech) should be acutely aware of is causing unnecessary distractions from important issues. When there's a discussion about the Google very often the first few comments are about how some other tech company also does something unsavory. This is a thread about how Google's engineers are actively working to take over the web as we know it and become the gatekeepers to all the benefit (n…

It's easy enough to close the thread and skip to the content you're looking for. At least that approach works for me.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#340

Post by jacquesm »

nqzero wrote: post #191
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #23

The issue is not the fact that Google owns the web. It is that the web itself has become decimated to the point where a company like Mozilla does not have a future. Facebook, Uber, TikTok, Snapchat, Instagram, Whatsapp, etc. None of them are optimized for Google index. Most top consumer internet applications don't take place in your browser.

This And I'd argue that google's about the only thing propping up the internet. Chromium's a reasonably open platform (certainly more so than internet explorer, which not that long ago looked destined to become the dominant platform), gmail has kept email viable, android is somewhat open (and without it, apple might own that space entirely), etc Every other player that's gotten traction has set up a walled garden

Gmail is actually a major force in further consolidation of email to a very few number of players. Ever increasing rulesets to be able to send to Gmail from other email servers increase the barrier to entry step-by-step until even the last holdouts will have to pick between a very limited number of parties to host their mail.
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