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Web by Google (TM)

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Re: Web by Google (TM)

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is overtaken by who exactly? In desktop & laptop Windows still holds a 87% market share.

Back then Windows is >90% of all consumer computing devices. Right now it's 87% of just desktop & laptop .

I don't think it's a fair comparison. Microsoft still dominates the exact same market they did before (desktop & laptop), with roughly the same market share. What you're describing is a new market bundled with the old market.

"Consumer computing devices" is such a vague market. If you study markets at such a big scope something like Texas Instruments wouldn't even make a blip while if you're paying more careful attention you'll find they absolutely dominate the scientific calculator market.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#243

A lot of talk in this article about Google capturing the whole web, all valid points, but I find the Facebook walled garden even more terrifying. I see people now, often in online school parent groups I'm a part of, etc. who cannot even use email anymore, who don't use web pages at all, they get all their information through Facebook groups and Facebook, and only talk through Facebook messenger or sometimes SMS. E-ma…

Remember in 2005-2010 when every geek worth their salt was talking about an open and distributed web?

"The web is open!" they would say. It's a key part of the web. It's part of our core values! We're going to change the world!

Yet 95% of these people are now at Facebook or Google actively trying to rip apart what made the web good, stable, and open.

It's repugnant. Every person you know working at Facebook should be ashamed of themselves and they should be socially ostracized.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, then why are there plausible competitors for Wal-Mart (Target, Costco, etc) but no other Amazons for general purpose online shopping?

What is Shopify, Instacart, Walmart and the thousand other businesses you can buy from directly.

If you want to find a thing to purchase online, you know almost certainly that Amazon will have it. This is not the case with any other e-commerce site. No one has the breadth of products that Amazon has. No one comes close. Yes, I can buy things on walmart.com that are commonly carried in Walmart, but they only have a tiny fraction of the overall selection of Amazon. It's not even a contest.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#245
post #206

I myself only build websites with Google Authentication I don't see any other competitor in this space everyone has a Google account and I don't have to deal with Infosec. Who doesn't have a Google account? Yes Google rules the web and there's not much we can do but live with it, I also like the fact that Google gives us a bunch of things for free and many people don't take this into account. Think about all the free…

I dislike AMP because it's Google trying to own parts of the web that should not be ownable.

Every non-Google service I log into that allows external auth supports at least Facebook and plain old e-mail in addition to Google. Maybe your experience is different, but I use a lot of very mainstream services both free and paid.

I know people who don't have Google accounts. I only use Gmail as a throwaway address for when I expect spam (e.g. signing up for dodgy-looking web sites). I happily admit I'm a huge fan of Google Maps and would not at all mind paying for it, and I actually do pay for YouTube, but everything else from Google has pretty good alternatives as far as I can see. (And even Maps has acceptable alternatives, it's just that much better.)

AMP is like putting all the non-Gmail mail you receive on your Gmail account into a separate folder, and only including Gmail senders in your Inbox.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#246

I love Google. Because the alternative is Apple which is literally an abusive relationship. Apple has the final say on what you run on your device. Apple blocks devs from developing for their devices unless you pay them thousands of dollars for inferior hardware. In comparison, Google is like an open utopia.

Google is anything but open and anything but a utopia, I can't see how they could be called 'an open utopia' by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, Apple isn't the 'alternative to Google'. The open web is an alternative to Google and Google is doing what it can to strangle it.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why we need a regulator. The old AT&T monopoly was dismantled. Based on talking to IBM insiders, IBM actively neutered itself fearing a similar fate in the late 1980s and early 1990s. But then, with Bush Sr and then Clinton, the rules changed; Microsoft started playing the political game, and essentially avoided a similar fate. There is no antitrust enforcement anymore. Breaking a company once indeed only buys…

How would one even break up Google ? You can only shut it down (which would allow competitors to emerge again).

You can break it up geographically. Advertising is still very local.

Or you could break up search / browser / advertising / mobile; search and browser would need to invent other ways to monetize themselves.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why we need a regulator. The old AT&T monopoly was dismantled. Based on talking to IBM insiders, IBM actively neutered itself fearing a similar fate in the late 1980s and early 1990s. But then, with Bush Sr and then Clinton, the rules changed; Microsoft started playing the political game, and essentially avoided a similar fate. There is no antitrust enforcement anymore. Breaking a company once indeed only buys…

How would one even break up Google ? You can only shut it down (which would allow competitors to emerge again).

Spin off the major parts of their business into genuinely separate companies - search, cloud compute, advertising, SaaS, Android and Chrome. With Google as a monolith, it's far too easy for them to bundle products and cross-subsidise unprofitable parts of their business to achieve dominance. Those independent companies can make deals that are mutually beneficial, but they'll have to answer to their shareholders and the FTC.

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#249

A lot of talk in this article about Google capturing the whole web, all valid points, but I find the Facebook walled garden even more terrifying. I see people now, often in online school parent groups I'm a part of, etc. who cannot even use email anymore, who don't use web pages at all, they get all their information through Facebook groups and Facebook, and only talk through Facebook messenger or sometimes SMS. E-ma…

Something we (people who work in tech) should be acutely aware of is causing unnecessary distractions from important issues. When there's a discussion about the Google very often the first few comments are about how some other tech company also does something unsavory. This is a thread about how Google's engineers are actively working to take over the web as we know it and become the gatekeepers to all the benefit (n…

I don't take the OP to be distracting or unnecessary in any way - in fact, I find it highly insightful.

The OP - perhaps without realizing it explicitly - makes an important distinction between the kinds of information-sharing systems that are in place on the modern web. Borrowing from Marshall McLuhan's distinctions between oral and literate cultures [0] we can see that Google and Facebook have a similar relationship. Both engage our hunter-gatherer mindsets in novel ways, but only one clearly does so with utility.

Google's usefulness as a search engine provider is in how it provides relevant information to users who are querying for something specific. Google search users are not sitting and waiting - they're searching and exploring. Google, therefore, plays to our hunter-gatherer mindset by directly aiding us in our searches.

Facebook's usefulness as a social network is in its ability to facilitate individual communications within a vast, centralized ecosystem. Users of Facebook are often searching for something - connections, information, relationships, etc., - but the way it engages its users' hunter-gatherer mindsets is very different. Instead of delivering targeted answers relevant to queries, Facebook forces its users to search through seemingly endless threads of often low-quality conversations, not really doing much of anything to aid in the search. Its users are simply sitting and waiting for the correct information to scroll into view. The search function on Facebook is not like Google's - it doesn't look for information, it simply takes you to a new part of the social square to which you want to go. Facebook, in essence, attaches a hunter-gatherer mindset to the very antithetical gossip found in the social square.

IMO, it is perfectly fine to have this conversation right here. Facebook has added a new dimension to the modern web: the expectation for there to be a well-regulated, always-available social square online. If the outcome of Google's actions are as inevitable as the article states, it would be proper to discuss where Facebook's unique "contributions" to the web fit into this article's analysis.

[0] https://youtu.be/ULI3x8WIxus?t=165

Re: Web by Google (TM)

#250

I thought hell will freeze first but ... can we please have Safari on Windows? Just to have one real alternative?

Safari did exist on Windows, up to version 5 or so; was discontinued a couple years ago.

Yep, my last project using it on Windows was around 2011.
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