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Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

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Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#221

Post by ponker »

mvn9 wrote: post #167
neonate wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to hear your theories if you'd be willing to share them.

Not OP, but I fancy this rough theory: According to armchair psychologists and a joke, the answer to every psychological question is 'your mother'. If you look at ways to deal with conflicts [1], it could be that being transgender is a form of dealing with inner conflicts. Being autistic means that there is some distortion (no judgement intended) in the relationship to other people. The distortion most likely origina…

Emphasis on the “armchair”

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#222

Post by ponker »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #184
mvn9 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I fancy this rough theory: According to armchair psychologists and a joke, the answer to every psychological question is 'your mother'. If you look at ways to deal with conflicts [1], it could be that being transgender is a form of dealing with inner conflicts. Being autistic means that there is some distortion (no judgement intended) in the relationship to other people. The distortion most likely origina…

I think you're overthinking it :) Trans people I know just feel wrong in their bodies. It looks wrong, it feels wrong. There seems no need to suppose it was right at first then got distorted by relationship problems to the point you want your male genitals removed (I know a tgirl who is waiting for that).

You’re not allowed to say it, apparently, but there is/was evidence that it can be acquired: https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/brown-university-cri...

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#223

Post by fock »

jolux wrote: post #203
fock wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how are people who still live their cis-lives, happy and don't really plan anything medical trans? Or is trans today just a catch-all phrase for everything a little androgynous? > but many trans people use language to describe themselves that other trans people would be offended by. this seems very much like some orthodoxy trying to prescribe their opinion. What's the problem with that language as long as (I assume)…

First off: yes, trans tends to be an umbrella term these days. >how are people who still live their cis-lives, happy and don't really plan anything medical trans? Or is trans today just a catch-all phrase for everything a little androgynous? If I understand correctly, you're misinterpreting this graf: >When I go to (back when travel was a thing) places that are less friendly than the coasts and people see the trans f…

So I got that after someone here talked about being nearly trans, because he had no stereotypical feelings? Shouldn't that be normal that your mood changes and you like different things on different days and in different stages of your life? I somehow find it very strange that now people are trying to box "normal" (as in that's how our system is supposed to work) behavior into "trans" - what's the purpose of that? I'm sure it's not helping acceptance from (frankly speaking) "weird" people which apparently can't accept other opinions. If everyone is non-binary to some degree (which seems the conclusion of some herr), why make a category for that and not just treat the psychologically ill who can't accept that?

and yes, that was a misinterpretation apparently. However, I am right that transition actually means taking hormones, getting an operation or daily crossdressing? Because if it's not and the people are unhappy, I think they should get psychological help (which might be a stigma itself). Except for the real external features I really doubt that people in the rural US really get to know that you are watching romcoms with your wife and enjoy it?

Btw: if there's 1 of 100 trans, how come you really know a lot of them? I imagine if they are in the closet, it's hard to get them talking about these things as well! So how do you do it?

EDIT: isn't something completely broken if some people binarize traits as female and male and accordingly everyone in between as non-binary? I mean, before we categorized people into genders by sex, now we categorize people into gender by their binarized behavior.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#224

Post by odessacubbage »

joshuamorton wrote: post #143
bobthechef wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a question of inherent tendency but cause of. Those who have elected to adapt to their convictions through surgery, hormones, etc. still have very high suicide rates. The studies (I don’t have them handy) undermine the notion that the increased risk and incidence of suicide of “pre-transition” individuals with gender dysphoria are suicidal because they’re “forced” to live in a way that seems to then to be at odds…

> But we find that “post-transition” we still see high rates But lower than pre-transition. > but I believe that was also addressed and found unconvincing. I can't say I understand how a paper would account for systemic discrimination, but even if they did so successfully, treatments for most things don't have 100% rates of success. > On the other hand, I have heard therapy for gender dysphoria (GD) Yes, and this is…

41% meme aside, we really do not have good data for this yet imo, the life experience of someone who transitions at 25+ with little to no support and someone who never even went through the puberty of their birth gender and had a supporting family/school etc is so dramatically different

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#225

Post by encom »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #187
trianglem wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a clear disagreement and not “bait”. But yes, I get it.

Let's discuss. You see male/female as being genetic therefore effectively unalterable, therefore the label of male/female cannot be changed. I am comfortable with the idea that if a person wishes to be seen in a particular way that I do so. Actual example: a couple I know were F/F when I first met them. Now one prefers to use a male name and be referred to as 'he'. Took a bit of adjusting to, ok. Now genetically one…

(not parent)

>Would you call them 'her' to their face, knowing how it could upset them?

Maybe, maybe not. What I don't want to do however is keep track of everyones imaginary genders, and face legal repercussions for "misgendering" them.

Here's an interesting search to look through: https://duck.com/?q=illegal+misgendering

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#226

Post by [deleted] »

fnord123 wrote: post #211
jmcgough wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trans people in general were largely ignored by research until the 2010s, so there's very little we do know at this point. But as for unresearched hunches... There's lots of jokes in the trans community about how your stereotypical trans girl is on the autism spectrum, with rainbow-colored hair, and into kink, anime, and programming. I think there's more of a willingness to challenge societal expectations of us in th…

> also an intense emotional empathy I've read people saying this before, but DSM-5 299.00 (F84.0) for ASD suggests the complete opposite. So where do you get this description as a trait for ASD?

[deleted]

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#227

Post by 666lumberjack »

ponker wrote: post #222
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're overthinking it :) Trans people I know just feel wrong in their bodies. It looks wrong, it feels wrong. There seems no need to suppose it was right at first then got distorted by relationship problems to the point you want your male genitals removed (I know a tgirl who is waiting for that).

You’re not allowed to say it, apparently, but there is/was evidence that it can be acquired: https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/brown-university-cri...

The paper that article references was discredited for being bad science, not because of any kind of agenda. They collected their 'data' by surveying parents on online forums - most of them explicitly anti-trans / 'gender critical' - instead of from transgender youth or medical professionals.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#228

Post by odessacubbage »

hh3k0 wrote: post #18
vmception wrote: post #11

Some detractors often say transgender people have mental health issues. But they mean it in the sense that they should be in an asylum or should not be catered to. A reality is that: A) Gender dysphoria is an imbalance of neural state. Therefore that would by definition be a mental health issue but not like the detractors say. B) Acknowledging and accommodating gender dysphoria discomfort costs cisgender people nothi…

> But they mean it in the sense that they should be in an asylum or should not be catered to. I have often heard it in a sense of "should not be catered to but rather given medical help". A fellow student once told me that he considers the current way of treating gender dysphoria irresponsible and that, if we'd treat schizophrenia the way we treat gender dysphoria, we'd all have to aknowledge the voices they hear and…

if we treated gender identity disorders the way we treated schizophrenia we would consider them to be credible & serious conditions that require medical intervention at an early age as opposed trying to pretend they'll go away if you close your eyes long enough.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#229

Post by 37r7rudjduj »

alicemaz wrote: post #14

I presume this is a consequence of the datasets they had to work off but it is really frustrating that they have one catchall "transgender and gender-diverse" category, segmenting by birth sex or particular gender identified with would be interesting/valuable

I realize this might be rude but I'm not sure what the polite way to ask is, isn't your sex always your birth sex for the most part? Outside the effects of the medications and the cosmetic effects of the surgery isn't your body still mostly the same as far as the nuts, bolts, and genetic disorders, are concerned?

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#230

Post by fock »

Pfhreak wrote: post #154
nomdep wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the difference between being gender fluid and having some traits & preferences typically associated with the other gender?

Great question. For me it's that sometimes I have those traits and sometimes I don't. I don't really have a set of traits and preferences that is consistent from day to day or hour to hour. Some days I'd prefer others see me as a man, other days I find that repulsive. So, gender fluid, because my gender is dynamic and shifting. I don't always see myself as femme, or masculine, but rather shifting between and around t…

but why bother with gender at all in this case?
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