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Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

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Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#391

Post by pjmlp »

jefftk wrote: post #376
pjmlp wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I think so, all of them have bugs that web developers have to work around, again should we look at Chrome's bug database or maybe AdWords has a better source of information for such workarounds?

If you want to point to an example bug, I think that would help me understand your point, yes. (To give a sense a sense of the scale I think we're talking about, this would be a bug that, say, more than half of web developers have to understand and work around in a typical month)

My point it that you are tainted by your employer, so this discussion is worthless, no matter what I come up with.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#392

Post by eitland »

tomc1985 wrote: post #375
eitland wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ahhh, finally I got you bug: I saw this just the other day when I looked at x" works so much better when x is an organized as a tree of tabs, in the memory of my browser, a short scroll and a click away instead of having to hunt through bookmarks reloading all of them in hope of figuring out which one it was. At least with the work I do it isn't alway obvious what is going to be useful or not. But while I don't have…

The bookmark menu supports the same hierarchical organization, and since you're pretty much using so many tabs as bookmarks anyway, I don't see much of a distinction. Deleting bookmarks is a bit more fiddly than closing tabs, but in my mind that is a good thing as I find myself accidentally closing tabs all the time. And I bet the "Close Other Tabs" option probably scares the crap out of you Tabs are supposed to be s…

I think you are kind of rude both in that you suggest you absolutely know better than me, and also in how you present your opinions.

I suggest you take a step back and reconsider both:

- computers as bicycles for the mind. If it can do so much for me, think what you could achieve!

- how you interact with others.

PS: no, "close other tabs" doesn't scare me. If I have to close down something I don't feel I have finished yet I can select that subtree and export it to the clipboard as a nested markdown list which I paste into Joplin where it is searchable.

Also if I accidentally close down something I can just press ctrl - shift - t the required number of times, alternatively ctrl - shift - n if a whole window has been closed.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#393

Post by Drdrdrq »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #289
Dahoon wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you didn't measure it. Worthless opinions as to me on my gaming pc chrome is most definitely slower. Both are opinions and worthless without numbers.

Real world benchmarks show they are neck and neck leap frogging each other all the time, so both of you are wrong; they're generally so close a human can't tell the difference, it's all biases these days unless someone shows you the numbers. Lots of people don't realize the extensions they add can also severely upset performance, but that's on the user. My 4 year old computer works just fine with both of them and 4 o…

Agreed, with a caveat: on non-Google pages. Google is actively slowing down their pages on Firefox (or at least heavily optimizes them, but just on Chrome - which is the same).

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#394

Post by hvis »

Lammy wrote: post #387
hvis wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/simple-tab-gr...

I was already a full-time Tree Style Tab user by the time FF4 Beta came around in 2010 so I'm probably part of the reason Panorama wasn't popular enough :p

There's enough space for both UIs. ;-)

More importantly, it seems both of them have survived the move to Quantum. It was really hard for me to imagine going without Panorama.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#395

Post by john4534243 »

causality0 wrote: post #2

Personally and strictly my own ignorant and informal opinion, Firefox and by extension Mozilla Corp. was doomed the moment it decided to compete with Chrome by being more like Chrome. Firefox built its userbase by being different than the dominant browser, then decided the only way to not die was to be exactly like the dominant browser except with less icky behind-the-scenes privacy behavior. That was a fundamental m…

The future of Rust language from Mozilla is also uncertain.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#396

Post by john4534243 »

mandreyel wrote: post #79

A possible alternative source of income for Mozilla I think would be, and one I haven’t seen mentioned before, providing consulting services in their areas of expertise. For example, demand for Rust engineers seems to be steadily increasing[1] and I can’t think of a better company with a larger concentration of Rust expertise than Mozilla. Perhaps the same could work for other areas (ex frontend), but I’m biased towa…

> For example, demand for Rust engineers seems to be steadily increasing

The future of Rust is uncertain as Mozilla.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#397

Post by atesti »

krzyk wrote: post #361
atesti wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going fullscreen in youtube is always instant in Chrome. In Firefox however, it is very slow (like 5s) when you have 1000 tabs open. Even opening a select box is slow, if you have several 1000 tabs. Funny enough, opening a new window (and keeping all the other tabs open) makes it fast again, if you are in that window. Seems like Firefox has some slow code paths, like notifying every tab about going fullscreen?

> Going fullscreen in youtube is always instant in Chrome. In Firefox however, it is very slow (like 5s) when you have 1000 tabs open. Is it possible to have 1000 tabs open in Chrome? When I had like 50, it ate my whole 8GB last time I tried it. In Firefox I frequently have 1000 tabs with no issues. (almost none, recently I noticed that there is some memory leak and the ram slowly disappears). This is the reason why…

I don't know if anybody REALLY can have more than 1000 tabs open as in completely loaded into RAM. When my computer is slow I pray that I don't have any unsent edit windows or unfinished youtube/twitch videos and just kill all the render processes.

Chrome kills them regularly on it's own, which means they simply crash with out of memory.

For me, Chrome generally handles killed renderers better, e.g. it shows a popup about crashed extensions and just reloads them. Firefox requires me to quickly disable and enable adblock and I lose the build in screenshot extension permanently (except disabling and renabling it with about:config). But for chrome a renderer often just freezes and only a day later there is a popup about it which offers to kill it.

Firefox seems to handle the tabs better overall, but at some point session resume fails with javascript errors in the shell. Chrome seems to handle session restore a bit better.

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#398

Post by blablabla123 »

causality0 wrote: post #2

Personally and strictly my own ignorant and informal opinion, Firefox and by extension Mozilla Corp. was doomed the moment it decided to compete with Chrome by being more like Chrome. Firefox built its userbase by being different than the dominant browser, then decided the only way to not die was to be exactly like the dominant browser except with less icky behind-the-scenes privacy behavior. That was a fundamental m…

> Firefox built its userbase by being different than the dominant browser, then decided the only way to not die was to be exactly like the dominant browser except with less icky behind-the-scenes privacy behavior.

Yes, that's also were Mozilla lost me. Also since last year's questionable privacy problems, I really see no point in continuing to use Firefox. Just going for maximum performance/best integration which is Safari.

For sure alternative implementations will come, Kosmonaut looks promising. Actually KHTML/Konqueror which Webkit is based on also came out of nowhere, when the Web standards where already considered sufficiently complex for nobody to do a new implementation. So I think this is fertile ground for new efforts...

Re: Mozilla’s Uncertain Future

#400

Post by athms »

Multicomp wrote: post #147
forgotpwd16 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WebExtension API even years later is afaik still less capable than XUL. They also deprecated plugins (NPAPI), a recent version has disabled userChrome.css and userContent.css by default and the pref is noted as legacy and the same is now considered for user.js if not removed. Also you cannot set a locally-hosted newtab page any longer.

They also killed off Live Bookmarks. I used that for years in FF and then later Waterfox until the PrivacyOne buyout, now I have to open a separate program to read my rss (rssowlnix)

Live Bookmarks died because it was ancient code that needed to be rewritten, but most people didn't use the feature. Mozilla added telemetry to analyze feed usage and the results came back with less than 1%. It was about resource allocation for development and no volunteers came forward.
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