Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 404 posts

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#241

Post by 3763282827 »

sixothree wrote: post #116
propogandist wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they've intentionally selected the word due to it's negative context. The usage of "leaker" allows them to play to the 'orange man bad' narrative, which they value more than getting Snowden pardoned.

Are there any measurable metrics by which he is doing a good job?

Tons but none that HN cares about. He got the economy roaring, reduced feel-good environmental regulations which opened up more jobs, took a hard stance on China in a way that saw success unlike Obama, moved border security forward in a way it never would have under a democrat, facilitated the Israel/UAE news that Biden is trying to claim credit for, sent federal police to hinder BLM rioters at a time when blue states decided they don't actually need to have safe streets, and generally made a lot of decisions that make the country better at making money. It's why the DNC has doubled down on corruption memes and giving freebies to minorities, they don't have anything else to offer as a party right now.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#242

Post by duxup »

refurb wrote: post #225
djur wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entirely driven by congressional Republicans.

Umm... it was in his election platform. And of course he needed help from congress, he can't actually pass a bill without congress.

Presidents typically work with their party to pass something. His own party more often complains about a lack of help or counterproductive behavior that makes it difficult for them to pass things.

Trump's lack of effort to work with his own party was a constant topic, until his partly largely quit talking about it as no help became the status quo.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#243

Post by lightgreen »

thrill wrote: post #71

Trump would pardon Charles Manson if he thought it'd get him reelected.

This is just absurd.

If moon was square, Trump would become a dolphin. This kind of statement.

Pardoning Charles Manson won't help get anyone reelected. Saying what Trump would do "if" is just a demagogy.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#244

Post by staunch »

enjeyw wrote: post #119
throwaway1777 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden. On the balance maybe he still deserves prison, but denying the positives of what Snowden did is disingenuous.

I'm uncertain here, but my gut tells me that potential positive and negative effects of whistleblowing are so hard to predict and fully attribute (they tend to be at a global geopolitical scale where lots of other cofounding factors are involved), that we should judge whistleblowers on their underlying motivations instead. Was the whistleblower/leaker motivated purely by a desire to improve the welfare of their natio…

The principle is pretty simple: any person that has evidence that the U.S. government is violating the U.S. Constitution should report it to the American people. If there is an official channel for reporting it, they should try that first (as Snowden did), but that is totally optional.

Any damage that results is the fault of the people that chose to violate the Constitution, and not the fault of the whistleblower. The violators should be imprisoned in almost every case, and probably even have their citizenship revoked.

Snowden should have be granted a pardon, become a universally respected American hero, and receive a medal.

Snowden's exile in Russia proves that Americans are too ignorant of their own constitution and the principles behind it to do the right thing for him. But he played his part flawlessly and history will grant him the title of American hero.

1. There's nothing about this whistleblower principle that would lead anyone to believe that assassination is fair game. Revealing constitutional violations = whistleblowing; that's it.

2. If there is no violation of the U.S. Constitution, then there is no whistleblowing to be done. Spying on foreign citizens is not a violation of the U.S. Constitution, for example, and so it should not be protected in the same way.

(Whether Americans should support a constitutional amendment that protects foreign people from American spying is another matter.)

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#246

Post by nootropicat »

duxup wrote: post #101
sneak wrote: post #38

The CIA will instagib Snowden the instant it is physically possible for them to do so. A pardon will never change that. The commander of the CIA states it plainly: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/39568370275766272... (Remember, we're talking about the same CIA that hacked US congressional computers, because the congress was investigating the CIA’s torture record and they wanted to cover it up. Then the CIA…

If they wanted him dead he would be. Even when Russia was FAR more closed the US intelligence was able to operate there.

If Russia allowed Snowden to be murdered they would lose the trust of other potential defectors - especially those that are directly valuable (military and industrial secrets). For this reason I'm certain he's under constant watch.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#247

Post by duxup »

nootropicat wrote: post #246
duxup wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they wanted him dead he would be. Even when Russia was FAR more closed the US intelligence was able to operate there.

If Russia allowed Snowden to be murdered they would lose the trust of other potential defectors - especially those that are directly valuable (military and industrial secrets). For this reason I'm certain he's under constant watch.

History would indicate otherwise. Defectors, spies, people who just leak things for money. They sometimes there are repercussions, other times not ... and still more do their thing.

I don't think it is all or nothing and I seriously doubt Snowden is untouchable.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#248

Post by lightgreen »

sabujp wrote: post #147

ObamaCare is a disaster and Snowden is a spy who should be executed-but if it and he could reveal Obama's records,I might become a major fan Trump needs to be held criminally liable for letting thousands die unnecessarily due to covid.

As well as several other country leaders, e. g. presidents/PMs of UK, Italy, France etc.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#249

Post by monocasa »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #129
runawaybottle wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends, how bad was Prism exactly?

Not very. https://www.cnet.com/news/no-evidence-of-nsas-direct-access-...

Uhh, six years after that article, the justice system found PRISM had been commonly used unconstitutionally.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/secret-court-rules-fbi...

I'd say that's pretty bad.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#250

Post by monocasa »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #176
cryptonector wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first I've heard of Snowden helping elect Trump.

A lot of people believed Snowden's gross misreading of the documents he leaked, and that misreading paints a picture of deep state intelligence agencies run amok illegally spying on Americans. Of course, any literate person who reads the documents understands they don't support that picture, but there are enough barely literate QAnon believers to support an entire industry.

Then I guess even the FISC had a "gross misreading" since they found the program had been unconstitutionally used.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/secret-court-rules-fbi...

Post reply on HN