Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#201

Post by refurb » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:37 AM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #197

refurb wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why were they pissed at the NSA? I thought Google cooperated with the NSA to provide access. Or did I misunderstand the situation?

There is nothing in Snowden's leaks to support this conclusion, much to suggest that it is false, and Google flatly denies cooperating with the NSA in clear, non-weasel-word terms. https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/what.html

Well there you go. I guess it was my own assumption based on one of the PRISM slides that show when surveillance for each company started.[1] I assumed it involved cooperation.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/...

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#202

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:37 AM UTC

austhrow743 wrote: post #199

sixothree wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any measurable metrics by which he is doing a good job?

Sure, the most important one. Hasn't invaded any new countries.

Unless you count the transformation of our friendly presence in Iraq to a hostile invasion opposed by the government.

But, sure, he hasn't invaded any countries that weren't notionally friendly at the time of the invasion.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#203

Post by dboreham » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:40 AM UTC

throwaway1777 wrote: post #44

HenryKissinger wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden is charged with theft, unauthorized communication of national defense information, and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, under the 1917 Espionage Act. His unauthorized disclosures of classified information caused grave damage to the national security of the United States and allowed enemies of the United States to better conceal their commun…

Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden. On the balance maybe he still deserves prison, but denying the positives of what Snowden did is disingenuous.

Seriously? I've never met anyone inside the business (tech/internet) who didn't believe governments were engaging in mass surveillance. This is going back to the 80s fwiw.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#204

Post by jeffbee » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:41 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #201

jeffbee wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing in Snowden's leaks to support this conclusion, much to suggest that it is false, and Google flatly denies cooperating with the NSA in clear, non-weasel-word terms. https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/what.html

Well there you go. I guess it was my own assumption based on one of the PRISM slides that show when surveillance for each company started.[1] I assumed it involved cooperation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/...

Well, that's court-ordered production of data based on given search terms. Being ordered by a court to do something is not the opposite of "cooperation" but it's not the same thing either.

What Googlers were angry about was the stuff in the leaks that showed they were tapping undersea cables.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#205

Post by dboreham » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:45 AM UTC

pfarnsworth wrote: post #184

No he didn't, he said no such thing. If you listen to the video, all he did was say he knows nothing about the issues, but he'll "look into it." That's his standard line. He wasn't actually saying he was considering it at all. Honestly, I don't think he would really have any intention to pardon Snowden. It gains him no points with the left, and would damage him with his base supporters. That's probably why the media…

You're being nieve. The reporters are set up by the wh staff to "ask" these questions then wh staff whisper to media to cover the non-answer.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#206

Post by Frondo » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:47 AM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #70

sneak wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manning was declared guilty in advance by the US president prior to her trial, and subsequently was tortured so badly prior to trial she tried to kill herself twice whilst imprisoned. https://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/obama-says-manning-br... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-mannin... She was reimprisoned after her pardon , where she was subjected again to inhumane treatment, and attempted s…

Why didn’t they kill her? If you know enough about the CIA to be absolutely certain they will murder Snowden, then surely you know what line he crossed that Chelsea Manning didn’t? You might also want to point out that the torture was solitary confinement for all but 1 hour per day, which I’m no fan of, but just to be clear it wasn’t torture in the water boarding or toenail removal sense.

It's pretty disgusting that solitary -- considered to "cause such severe psychological damage that it is tantamount to torture" -- isn't torturous enough for you, in the "waterboard or toenail removal" sense:

"Solitary confinement is so egregious a punishment that in 2011, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment condemned its use, except in exceptional circumstances and for as short a time as possible, and banned the practice completely for people with mental illnesses and for juveniles."

[0] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/almost-addicted/2018...

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#207

Post by SmokeyHamster » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:48 AM UTC

duxup wrote: post #96

drewcoo wrote: post #68

Even in the title, Reuters editorializes blatantly by labeling Snowden "leaker." And the downvotes here are already clearly politically motivated.

Personally I don't see leaker as an automatic pejorative.

Agreed. There have been plenty of people labeled "leakers" inside the White House who have been celebrated by the media, like Eric Ciaramella.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#208

Post by refurb » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:48 AM UTC

timmytokyo wrote: post #169

burfog wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably for this: "we skew white, male, and affluent. Those, as he sees it, are his people." That appears to be an accusation of racism, sexism, and classism. He was in the public eye for decades, but didn't get those sorts of accusations until he dared to become involved in presidential politics. The evidence points the other way. Just a few items, one for each accusation: He used to have a black girlfriend. He fre…

His racism has been apparent for longer than the last 3.5 years [1]. [1] https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-r...

In typical Vox fashion, that article is really stretching to make a point.

A few examples:

- "Trump Management Corporation" accused of racism, not Trump himself

- Trump pays for ad saying “Central Park Five” should be executed. They were innocent. But apparently that's racist?

- In The Apprentice TV show, Trump said of a black person “You’re an unbelievably talented guy in terms of education, and you haven’t done anything. That's racist?

- Trump proposed idea for The Apprentice - “an idea that is fairly controversial — creating a team of successful African Americans versus a team of successful whites. Whether people like that idea or not, it is somewhat reflective of our very vicious world.” That's racist?

- Trump claimed, “I heard [Obama] was a terrible student. Terrible. How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard?”

Poor taste? Tactless? Unpresidential? Sure.

Racist? Not really.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#209

Post by noobermin » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:49 AM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #54

I'll be impressed when he actually issues a pardon. I'd say Trump is notorious for "talking about" things without ever delivering anything. Take the issue of 50 state concealed carry reciprocity. Regardless of what you think about this issue yourself, it seems clear that Trump has tried to pander to gun owners and 2A advocates by constantly talking about this. But last I heard, there had been no meaningful action on…

It works because he maintains a high approval rating in his party.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#210

Post by smt88 » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:49 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #107

smt88 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politically, he just says insane things that get headlines, which distract from the real news: Covid killing hundreds of thousands under his care, dismantling of the Post Office, and other highly unpopular consequences of his presidency.

> which distract from the real news: Covid killing hundreds of thousands under his care, Nevermind that in the states the main actors responsible in times of health crises are the local State authorities not the Federal ones. Your 'under his care' is terribly loaded.

He has control over the FDA, which bungled the early response. He also controls the CDC and has appointed many inexperienced donors to important positions (many of my friends work there, and whistleblowers have come forward).

He is also influential among a large group of Americans, as is any president.

He called for Obama to resign after a single case of ebola[1] in the US. Clearly he agrees with me that the president has an effect in fighting infectious disease.

1.https://www.axios.com/trump-obama-resign-787b042d-0361-48f1-...