Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#181

Post by burfog » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:18 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #88

tomc1985 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There were murmurs, talk of a secret room with fiberoptic splitters at an AT&T datacenter in San Francisco, lots of rumors but most of it was never confirmed

The existence of this facility (as well as others) was confirmed. https://www.wired.com/2013/06/nsa-whistleblower-klein/ (NSA Leak Vindicates AT&T Whistleblower) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A (Room 641A) > Room 641A is a telecommunication interception facility operated by AT&T for the U.S. National Security Agency, as part of its warrantless surveillance program as authorized by the Patriot Act. The facilit…

That's what they want you to think. :-)

There's also point #4, "Some beautiful misdirection", in https://blog.thinkst.com/p/if-nsa-has-been-hacking-everythin... discussed 3 days ago at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24139828

Maybe they'd really prefer to take the public relations hit of everybody thinking that they spy on Americans.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#182

Post by perryizgr8 » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:18 AM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #61

runawaybottle wrote: post #16

Politically, bringing back Snowden brings back the issue, Obama/Biden era big government spying program Prism. Trump: Remember everyone, Biden used to spy on you. This is similar to when he did a press conference with all of Bill Clinton’s accusers. Just a means to an end for Trump.

Politically, he just says insane things that get headlines, which distract from the real news: Covid killing hundreds of thousands under his care, dismantling of the Post Office, and other highly unpopular consequences of his presidency.

President is not responsible for pathetic Healthcare in California and New York. I'm always amazed how every single failure of the Democratic state apparatus is blamed on the President. Same deal with police brutality.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#183

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

throwaway1777 wrote: post #44

HenryKissinger wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden is charged with theft, unauthorized communication of national defense information, and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, under the 1917 Espionage Act. His unauthorized disclosures of classified information caused grave damage to the national security of the United States and allowed enemies of the United States to better conceal their commun…

Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden. On the balance maybe he still deserves prison, but denying the positives of what Snowden did is disingenuous.

Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden.

The TSP was revealed in 2005, broader surveillance was broadly acknowledged publicly by the government in 2007, and a big, overt part of the FISA Amendments Act of 2009 was retroactive legalization of much of it. All of this well before Snowden.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#184

Post by pfarnsworth » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

No he didn't, he said no such thing.

If you listen to the video, all he did was say he knows nothing about the issues, but he'll "look into it." That's his standard line. He wasn't actually saying he was considering it at all. Honestly, I don't think he would really have any intention to pardon Snowden. It gains him no points with the left, and would damage him with his base supporters. That's probably why the media reported it, to try to get his supporters upset at him.

It's the same thing with the whole manufactured outrage of Kamala Harris and the question posed to him by the reporter. Trump didn't even mention Harris, and the reporter brought it up and asked him whether he heard about the report. Trump said that he knew nothing about it, and he would have assumed that the Democrats would have already validated Harris' eligibility, but he would "look into it." He never even made a point about it, it was obvious it was a non-issue to him. It's a meaningless statement that the media tries to use to make him look bad, and meanwhile it just lets his supporters keep saying that the media lies, which is true when they bend the truth like they do.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#185

Post by briandear » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

drewcoo wrote: post #68

Even in the title, Reuters editorializes blatantly by labeling Snowden "leaker." And the downvotes here are already clearly politically motivated.

Define the term leaker. And then address if Snowden was that. Motivation doesn’t change the definition of the term.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#186

Post by prokes » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #155

s17n wrote: post #115

If he actually does it I'll seriously considering voting for him. He won't, though.

It is interesting, your comment is completely insane to me. Doesn't that seem strange to you too?

“Insanity is relative. It depends on who has who locked in what cage.” ― Ray Bradbury

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#187

Post by refurb » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:22 AM UTC

duxup wrote: post #75

mindcrime wrote: post #54

I'll be impressed when he actually issues a pardon. I'd say Trump is notorious for "talking about" things without ever delivering anything. Take the issue of 50 state concealed carry reciprocity. Regardless of what you think about this issue yourself, it seems clear that Trump has tried to pander to gun owners and 2A advocates by constantly talking about this. But last I heard, there had been no meaningful action on…

Trump really hasn't taken the lead in much in the way of legislative action, almost ever. I don't think he understands or has the patience for the process. Anything beyond what he can try to decree himself, he seems to lose interest / struggle with. Even tripping up his own party members in congress while they try to understand what he wants. He has threatened to veto things he pushed for... then signed them shortly…

Trump really hasn't taken the lead in much in the way of legislative action, almost ever.

First major tax reform in decades?

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#188

Post by hrayr » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:22 AM UTC

andrei_says_ wrote: post #149

kgarten wrote: post #58

Is it just me or is the term leaker politically charged in the context. For me, Snowden is a whistle blower not a leaker. There's a reason why he revealed secretes (he also didn't just release them, but was very careful how much he revealed), the secrete programs were unconstitutional -> whistle blower not leaker. edit: typo.

Thank you for this. He exposed clearly illegal activity and framing him as a leader changes the narrative. He is a whistleblower who upheld his oath to protect the constitution of the US, in the face of severe consequences.

I'm sure you meant to say leaker not leader, correct?

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#189

Post by vmception » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:23 AM UTC

cryptonector wrote: post #25

duxup wrote: post #12

I suppose on his mind this might fit with some sort of fight with the "deep state". Beyond that I would just chalk it up to some inherent capriciousness... bordering on concerning instability.

You've addressed the President's possible motivations. But, do you think Snowden should be pardoned? Just curious. (It's a tough call. I've not decided my own position on the matter.)

Yes, he should be pardoned. Just because toddlers can't distinguish the nuance between the following the law and discretionary breaking of it, it doesn't mean the rest of us with developed prefrontal cortex have to put up with spending taxpayer dollars on a trial just to show consistency.

People are more concerned about other people showing us shady things intelligence community does, than what Edward Snowden did. When intelligence community shouldn't be doing things Congress doesn't know about, which it does.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#190

Post by cryptonector » Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 4:25 AM UTC

totalZero wrote: post #10

Kind of hard to prosecute Assange if you're willing to pardon Snowden. I'm gonna go make some popcorn and keep watching for Assange's name in the pre-election headlines.

In the Snowden case Trump has at least two reasons to pardon him: a) pander to a certain crowd (tech), b) stick a finger in the IC's collective eye.

In the Assange case Trump has at least one more reason to pardon him: so Assange can tell the world whether Seth Rich gave him the DNC emails. But if Trump even floats a pardon for Assange then the Swedish government might renew its claims against Assange and the UK might just extradite Assange to Sweden, then Trump couldn't get what he wanted. To pardon Assange Trump first has to get Assange extradited to the U.S., and he can't make a deal with Assange first either, and this means he can't pardon Assange yet. There's also no time for any of that before the election. The closer the election gets, the more reason (a) would dominate any reasoning about a pardon for Assange.

Some possible outcomes:

- Trump pardons Assange just before the election without having floated it, and possibly at the same time as Snowden.

- Assange finally gets extradited and either tried, or pardoned, or both, depending on who is President at the time. Hard to say what Trump might do then, since Assange would be no use to him then, and Biden would probably not pardon if Seth Rich really did furnish the DNC's emails to wikileaks.

- Trump wins the election, the charges get dropped, and Sweden does not renew its charges because now Assange would be no help to Trump's campaigns.

- Trump pardons Assange after the election, whether he wins or loses.

- Eventually the UK rejects the extradition requests, Assange goes free, but effectively can't leave the UK because the U.S. could request extradition from any country Assange enters that has an extradition treaty with the U.S.