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Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

reuters.com

131–140 of 404 posts

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they've intentionally selected the word due to it's negative context. The usage of "leaker" allows them to play to the 'orange man bad' narrative, which they value more than getting Snowden pardoned.

Are there any measurable metrics by which he is doing a good job?

I think the implication was that pardoning whistleblowers is good, if that's what your opinion of Snowden is. But that doesn't fit the desired narrative, so they don't call him a whistleblower.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#132
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what a fair trial means to people...his own admissions include describing his own illegal activity...

Without going too deep down the "jury nullification" rabbit hole, I'll just say that it's entirely reasonable to admit taking an action that is prohibited by law, while pleading not guilty to violating the same law. You may argue that there were extenuating circumstances that pre-empt the law in the specific case, or you may argue that the law itself is inherently wrong, etc. Yes, it's difficult to win an acquittal l…

Jury nullification is so rare and really relies on a particular jury thinking a particular way...

A jury can even be sympathetic... and still convict him.

I hear folks talk about a fair trial but he's already admitted to crimes... so is the "fairness" only determined by a highly unlikely outcome, I'm not sure that's about fairness.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden is charged with theft, unauthorized communication of national defense information, and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, under the 1917 Espionage Act. His unauthorized disclosures of classified information caused grave damage to the national security of the United States and allowed enemies of the United States to better conceal their commun…

Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden. On the balance maybe he still deserves prison, but denying the positives of what Snowden did is disingenuous.

To expand on this, it means conversations about surveillance get to actually happen instead of being instantly derailed with "well we don't know it's happening".

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden. On the balance maybe he still deserves prison, but denying the positives of what Snowden did is disingenuous.

Leaking classified data without authorization was reckless and unlawful. There are already stringent safeguards in place to prevent abuse of the intelligence community's surveillance powers. Oversight of US surveillance programs is exercised by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. The purpose of these congre…

And yet all those safeguards still led to a program that the courts declared unconstitutional, and only with Snowden's leaked documents.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/secret-court-rules-fbi...

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#135
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except a pardon would mean he could move back to the US and leave Russia

I don't know that I would advise Snowden to ever come to the US. Pardon or no pardon. And I mean that in a very caring way. The people after him are dangerous, and they don't care about laws, or rights. Think Erik Prince, but actually smart, methodical, and quiet. Oh, and there are thousands of them. For Mr Snowden, this is not a game.

Can you elaborate? Are there murderous independent elements within the NSA and CIA that would do this to an American citizen? I’m a huge cynic, but perhaps too naive about this. That all sounds very scary, especially when the leak was about a very large institutional apparatus that feels too big for anyone to take it personally.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#136
post #58

Is it just me or is the term leaker politically charged in the context. For me, Snowden is a whistle blower not a leaker. There's a reason why he revealed secretes (he also didn't just release them, but was very careful how much he revealed), the secrete programs were unconstitutional -> whistle blower not leaker. edit: typo.

He was not a Government employee at the time. Contractors don't get to be whistle blowers. EDIT: Turns out the law does protect contractors, so I guess it's circumstantial that employees get branded whistle blowers and contractors get charged as spies.

What? I don't follow your conclusion at all.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#137
post #58

Is it just me or is the term leaker politically charged in the context. For me, Snowden is a whistle blower not a leaker. There's a reason why he revealed secretes (he also didn't just release them, but was very careful how much he revealed), the secrete programs were unconstitutional -> whistle blower not leaker. edit: typo.

He was not a Government employee at the time. Contractors don't get to be whistle blowers. EDIT: Turns out the law does protect contractors, so I guess it's circumstantial that employees get branded whistle blowers and contractors get charged as spies.

Interesting. Is this a generally agreed upon rule?

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#138
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden. On the balance maybe he still deserves prison, but denying the positives of what Snowden did is disingenuous.

I'm uncertain here, but my gut tells me that potential positive and negative effects of whistleblowing are so hard to predict and fully attribute (they tend to be at a global geopolitical scale where lots of other cofounding factors are involved), that we should judge whistleblowers on their underlying motivations instead. Was the whistleblower/leaker motivated purely by a desire to improve the welfare of their natio…

Hard cases make bad law and all that. There's no easy way to construct a good general rule here.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#139
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I mean, if he pardons before the debates, suddenly that takes up a debate topic slot. All he has to do is directly ask Biden, ‘You don’t think Snowden did the right thing by exposing your administration’s surveillance program?’. It’s such an easy win, and will take mindshare away from other issues (coronavirus response, police reform, Medicare/social security cuts). Add a TikTok ban in there and take up another…

I think there is almost zero chance that Biden will debate him. If he does pardoning Snowden and making that into an issue is a brilliant move. That will sting hard.

There's no way there won't be several debates.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#140
The response to this news on HN has been very disappointing. By contrast, there was a lively apolitical discussion[0] back in 2015 about the effort to bring Snowden back to the US. On the other hand, people now seem more concerned about the motivations of Trump. If it's the right thing to do, who cares about the motivation behind it or the person enacting it? This reminds me a little of the response to Trump's efforts to end the War in Afghanistan. I realize I'm not talking about individuals, but it's maddening to see communities that had almost universally supported both things for many years seemingly let political biases get in the way of doing the right thing.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9655693

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