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Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

reuters.com

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Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#111

Post by propogandist »

kgarten wrote: post #58

Is it just me or is the term leaker politically charged in the context. For me, Snowden is a whistle blower not a leaker. There's a reason why he revealed secretes (he also didn't just release them, but was very careful how much he revealed), the secrete programs were unconstitutional -> whistle blower not leaker. edit: typo.

they've intentionally selected the word due to it's negative context. The usage of "leaker" allows them to play to the 'orange man bad' narrative, which they value more than getting Snowden pardoned.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#112

Post by tlear »

runawaybottle wrote: post #43
gringoDan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is the case, not a bad strategy for Trump. In general, I assume that any move by a politician is made entirely out of self-interest.

Yeah I mean, if he pardons before the debates, suddenly that takes up a debate topic slot. All he has to do is directly ask Biden, ‘You don’t think Snowden did the right thing by exposing your administration’s surveillance program?’. It’s such an easy win, and will take mindshare away from other issues (coronavirus response, police reform, Medicare/social security cuts). Add a TikTok ban in there and take up another…

I think there is almost zero chance that Biden will debate him.

If he does pardoning Snowden and making that into an issue is a brilliant move. That will sting hard.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#113

Post by dx87 »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #94
dx87 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's debatable whether he should be pardoned for leaking the domestic spying information (I don't think so, he didn't try to bring it up through proper channels first), but he leaked information that had nothing to do with that. For example, he gave the Chinese government information about which computers the NSA had access to. My personal theory is that he just gathered as much information as he could get hi…

>For example, he gave the Chinese government information about which computers the NSA had access to. When did he give them what information exactly? >don't think so, he didn't try to bring it up through proper channels first The two sides disagree whether he attempted this. Snowden say he spent tremendous effort trying to report things through the proper channels.

> When did he give them what information exactly?

He gave them the information when he got to China.

> The two sides disagree whether he attempted this. Snowden say he spent tremendous effort trying to report things through the proper channels.

I think if he had, he'd have a single shred of evidence that he had actually tried. I find it hard to believe that he gathered a ton of information that had nothing to do with his supposed reason for leaking the information, but didn't save a single email he could have sent to the people he tried to report it to.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#114

Post by refurb »

duxup wrote: post #12

I suppose on his mind this might fit with some sort of fight with the "deep state". Beyond that I would just chalk it up to some inherent capriciousness... bordering on concerning instability.

It would be a great way to stick it to the intelligence community which has been doing some questionable things in their investigation of Russian collusion. E.g. fabricating evidence for FISA warrants (see recent guilty plea)[1]

Amazingly HN loves to crap all over FISA warrants, but when it's used against Trump, nothing but crickets.

[1]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kevin-clinesmith-fbi-lawyer-ple...

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#116

Post by sixothree »

propogandist wrote: post #111
kgarten wrote: post #58

Is it just me or is the term leaker politically charged in the context. For me, Snowden is a whistle blower not a leaker. There's a reason why he revealed secretes (he also didn't just release them, but was very careful how much he revealed), the secrete programs were unconstitutional -> whistle blower not leaker. edit: typo.

they've intentionally selected the word due to it's negative context. The usage of "leaker" allows them to play to the 'orange man bad' narrative, which they value more than getting Snowden pardoned.

Are there any measurable metrics by which he is doing a good job?

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#117

Post by dannyw »

djsumdog wrote: post #104

I honestly care more about Julian Assange. His own government turned their back on him. Snowden has been quite the show, enough so that I'm seriously wondering if he's actually a spook. His entire story is weird. He holds a six figure salary as an NSA contractor, suddenly has a moral compass, somehow downloads a bunch of top secret stuff while working remotely from Hawaii, leaks documents that are mostly redacted and…

Snowden went to Russia. Julian Assange couldn’t physically get out of a FVRY nation.

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#119

Post by enjeyw »

throwaway1777 wrote: post #44
HenryKissinger wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden is charged with theft, unauthorized communication of national defense information, and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, under the 1917 Espionage Act. His unauthorized disclosures of classified information caused grave damage to the national security of the United States and allowed enemies of the United States to better conceal their commun…

Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden. On the balance maybe he still deserves prison, but denying the positives of what Snowden did is disingenuous.

I'm uncertain here, but my gut tells me that potential positive and negative effects of whistleblowing are so hard to predict and fully attribute (they tend to be at a global geopolitical scale where lots of other cofounding factors are involved), that we should judge whistleblowers on their underlying motivations instead. Was the whistleblower/leaker motivated purely by a desire to improve the welfare of their nation's citizens? If so, the person should be praised as a selfless patriot. If there were other motivations, like personal gain, they're potentially a traitor.

Why I'm not certain about this:

- What kind of other actions does this philosophy of "the motivation justifies the ends" lead to? Assassinating political leaders suddenly seems on the table...

- What if the whistleblower is motivated by the welfare of the citizens of the world, rather than just of their own nation? I guess you can be a traitor to your country and a hero to humanity (see Nazi Germany etc etc)

Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

#120

Post by jjoonathan »

gpm wrote: post #64
jjoonathan wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were youtube I could at least be certain that an account named "HenryKissinger" spouting authoritarian drivel was a novelty account. Here? I legitimately don't know.

In his profile > about: Not related to the real Henry Kissinger.

It's pretty standard for novelty accounts to put disclaimers in their details, so I don't think that provides much information one way or another.
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