Trump would pardon Charles Manson if he thought it'd get him reelected.
Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
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Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#72Is it just me or is the term leaker politically charged in the context. For me, Snowden is a whistle blower not a leaker. There's a reason why he revealed secretes (he also didn't just release them, but was very careful how much he revealed), the secrete programs were unconstitutional -> whistle blower not leaker. edit: typo.
Snowden's method of whistleblowing was leaking documents to the press. He is both.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. But still. No way I'll vote for Trump, but I have to admit that such a pardon would have me feel just a bit less antipathy toward Trump.
I'm glad Edward Snowden leaked what he did, but I'm not sure a pardon makes any sense at all.
Judging by Chelsea Manning's treatment post-pardon, Snowden would be rather foolish to act upon it and return to the United States anyway. But it might be a good opportunity to get a valid visa and travel to another country that lacks US extradition agreements.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. But still. No way I'll vote for Trump, but I have to admit that such a pardon would have me feel just a bit less antipathy toward Trump.
Yeah. I don't like him (not eligible to vote for or against), but the "threat to our democracy" narrative is completely sunk. He clearly has no dictatorial aspirations. Maybe it's just because of events in the lead-up to the 2016 election, but if anything he seems worried about abuses of unchecked executive power on people's privacy. He's certainly at odds in some cases with Barr, who is a classic AG and wants ever-g…
He repeatedly floats the idea of having journalists shot, pardons people for intimidating witnesses on his behalf, goes on public television to invite foreign interference in American elections so long as he's the beneficiary, he deploys troops on American soil against the wishes of state governments, sets new standards for noncompliance with judicial investigations, and spams illegal executive orders like a pentester searching for open ports.
Even if one were a fan of his policies, I cannot comprehend the confusion of principles that would lead them to put "checking executive power" anywhere on his priority list. Not as it relates to privacy, and not in general.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#75I'll be impressed when he actually issues a pardon. I'd say Trump is notorious for "talking about" things without ever delivering anything. Take the issue of 50 state concealed carry reciprocity. Regardless of what you think about this issue yourself, it seems clear that Trump has tried to pander to gun owners and 2A advocates by constantly talking about this. But last I heard, there had been no meaningful action on…
Trump really hasn't taken the lead in much in the way of legislative action, almost ever.
I don't think he understands or has the patience for the process.
Anything beyond what he can try to decree himself, he seems to lose interest / struggle with. Even tripping up his own party members in congress while they try to understand what he wants. He has threatened to veto things he pushed for... then signed them shortly after.
I think he might simply be incapable of anything requiring too many new steps for him.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#76Is it just me or is the term leaker politically charged in the context. For me, Snowden is a whistle blower not a leaker. There's a reason why he revealed secretes (he also didn't just release them, but was very careful how much he revealed), the secrete programs were unconstitutional -> whistle blower not leaker. edit: typo.
Snowden's method of whistleblowing was leaking documents to the press. He is both.
Was the Pentagon Papers a leak or whistleblowing? Seems like we have a precedent for this.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#77Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Manning was declared guilty in advance by the US president prior to her trial, and subsequently was tortured so badly prior to trial she tried to kill herself twice whilst imprisoned. https://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/obama-says-manning-br... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-mannin... She was reimprisoned after her pardon , where she was subjected again to inhumane treatment, and attempted s…
Why didn’t they kill her? If you know enough about the CIA to be absolutely certain they will murder Snowden, then surely you know what line he crossed that Chelsea Manning didn’t? You might also want to point out that the torture was solitary confinement for all but 1 hour per day, which I’m no fan of, but just to be clear it wasn’t torture in the water boarding or toenail removal sense.
That’s the thing: it doesn’t need to be “absolutely certain” to be sufficient risk to effectively bar him from ever re-entering (or even venturing too far out of the current protection detail
that keeps him alive).
Even “pretty likely to be assassinated upon entry” would be enough to keep most reasonable or prudent people away forever.
Solitary confinement for extended periods of time causes permanent, physical damage to the human brain and psyche. If you have no experience with it or those who have so suffered, I don’t think you have even a remote shred of justification or qualification to speak of it the way that you have.
As I have personally witnessed the intense, permanent damage caused by such things, I entirely refuse to engage with your casual dismissal, which is extraordinarily offensive to me.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#79Trump will scarcely do something like this unless he thinks it will benefit him. Does he think millenials will love him for it or does he think Snowden has dirt on Obama? Time will tell.
He floats a lot of ideas that 1) make headlines but don’t really make sense and 2) never actually happen. He’s been two weeks from announcing a new healthcare plan since he took office.
Ditto for building "the wall", making various trade deals, bringing peace to the Middle East, ending the opiate crisis, launching the Space Force... He has a real knack for announcing bold new projects with no clear plan for carrying them out, then quietly moving on.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
This will garner him one mail in vote from Russia.
Not trying to change the subject, but that's kind of an interesting question actually. Can Edward Snowden vote in US elections? As far as I know, he's still an American citizen, and he hasn't been technically convicted of anything.
Yes he can. He would use his last state of residence as the voting location.