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Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

nature.com

81–90 of 358 posts

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not clear to me what this means. I’ve never made any positive choice to be a man. I’ve never told anyone “I’m a man”. But everyone somehow concludes that I’m a man. What does it mean to “identify as” something?

> I’ve never made any positive choice to be a man. Do you perceive yourself as a man?

I’m not sure what that means.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of Abigail Shrier's book "The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters"? She was on Joe Rogan's podcast recently though I have yet to listen to it. A quick search turned up, not surprisingly, some negative critiques and others that are more positive. If you have heard of it, or read it, I'd love to hear what you think of her position. I appreciate the offer to be part of a dialogue. I think it's import…

It’s not sound and ultimately it’s based in the grief of people who believe they have somehow lost their child (or spouse, or sibling) because they transitioned. I don’t want to minimize the pain of people who have this mindset, no matter how destructive it is. Their sense of loss is genuine and it drives them to the same level of commitment that you see from parents who lose a child to a drunk driver. But, while the…

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I have no agenda here. I have one trans friend (that I know of). After seeing the topic on Rogan's podcast I did some quick searching online and it opened up a few lines of thought I hadn't considered or wasn't aware of.

Edit: added "(that I know of)" to acknowledge my limited knowledge of my friend's gender or sexuality.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#83
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People making claims like that generally no nothing of the procedure by which mental health issues are diagnosed - which is to say, mental health treatment is about addressing issues which are negatively affecting someone's quality of life, until they are not. This is the same reason you can't just go through the DSM V and ascribe mental health conditions to people on TV or in the media or whatnot - it doesn't work t…

Don’t they have much higher suicide rates? How happy can that be?

[deleted]

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#84

There are so many ways to interpret a correlation such as this. For example, one possible obvious mechanism is that people in the trans community may be more likely to encourage autistic people to believe that they “are transgender”. The study uncritically uses the concept “transgender and gender-diverse individuals have elevated rates of autism” without ascribing any operational meaning to “transgender and gender-di…

Your criticism targets the idiosyncrasies of this particular paper but ignores the multi-front of genetic, neuroimaging, and physiological scientific literature investigating this phenomenon. The author's hypothesis did not occur in a vacuum, nor was this study the one that first proposed it. In the end, the criticism you present seems like troll-baiting the culture wars, making political what scientists are pursuing…

Yes, I was, in fact, talking about this particular paper. I’m sure it was clear that I don’t consider this an example of the scientific method; so you are begging the question. The rest of your remarks are arguments from motivation.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve never made any positive choice to be a man. Do you perceive yourself as a man?

I’m not sure what that means.

I'll ask the question a different way: when people perceive and address you like a man, do you feel any reason to disagree with how they address or perceive you?

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#86
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the English language they are: The term has been used to distinguish male and female for over 200 years, and increasingly so for the last 50 years. Of course we have proof of this. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?year_end=2019&year_sta... Compare also: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?year_end=2019&year_sta... Neologisms like "biological male/female" barely register, so I won't include them.

Historically male and female are sexes and masculine, feminine, and neuter are genders.

Historically, the distinction between sex, ascribed gender, and gender identity hasn't been made until very recently, with “sex” (in the sense of male vs. female) and “gender” being used as synonyms, with “gender” often preferred over “sex” simply to avoid confusion with (or just evocation of) the other (intercourse) sense of “sex”; “masculine” and “feminine” weren't used for most of history for either ascribed gender or gender identity as traits of people, but for something closer to gender expression (adherence to sex stereotypes.)

(“Gender” referring to a grammatical trait, where “masculine” and “feminine” are among the possible values is an older concept, sure, but that's not really particularly relevant.)

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#87
post #7

Hanging out in trans circles (as a non-binary person myself), this seems commonly known within the community. Interesting to see research done here, but I'd be careful about over generalizing (e.g. "All trans people are neurodiverse"). Edit: Also, happy to answer questions about being non-binary (specifically, gender fluid) if folks have good faith questions.

Have you heard of Abigail Shrier's book "The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters"? She was on Joe Rogan's podcast recently though I have yet to listen to it. A quick search turned up, not surprisingly, some negative critiques and others that are more positive. If you have heard of it, or read it, I'd love to hear what you think of her position. I appreciate the offer to be part of a dialogue. I think it's import…

[deleted]

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#88

Some detractors often say transgender people have mental health issues. But they mean it in the sense that they should be in an asylum or should not be catered to. A reality is that: A) Gender dysphoria is an imbalance of neural state. Therefore that would by definition be a mental health issue but not like the detractors say. B) Acknowledging and accommodating gender dysphoria discomfort costs cisgender people nothi…

Making the assumption that a mental health issue, perhaps disorder, equates to an illness is a non scientific prejudice.

Where is the line between "mental health issue" and "mental health illness" if both decrease the patient's quality of life?

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#89
I'm super going to get dissed/downvoted for this one, but this is mild confirmation that changing genders/creating numerous imaginary genders is truly a mental illness. Face reality. Mental illness is spreading rapidly, (and worsening in pandemic) and we don't do enough to talk candidly about it. And for the record, I'm not being "mean" or trying to offend, I'm being dead serious.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#90
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically male and female are sexes and masculine, feminine, and neuter are genders.

Historically , the distinction between sex, ascribed gender, and gender identity hasn't been made until very recently, with “sex” (in the sense of male vs. female) and “gender” being used as synonyms, with “gender” often preferred over “sex” simply to avoid confusion with (or just evocation of) the other (intercourse) sense of “sex”; “masculine” and “feminine” weren't used for most of history for either ascribed gend…

Exactly. I would add that, among people who are not squeamish about the word “sex”, it is the preferred term for distinguishing male and female, while “gender” is more useful in discussing the grammar of romance languages.
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