341–350 of 417 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't get the Python3 bw-incompatibility hate. Getting rid of cruft is literally the only way to get rid of cruft. It's literally the Pythonic to not have cruft. I dread the day Python will be as bloated as C++ or Java, neither that dare to remove things.
What cruft did py3 remove from py2?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And, if they do this, how are they generally speaking so successful? They have almost complete monopoly on online search, web ads, online video, on phone OS, on browsers. And they are not afraid to abuse those to get more, and are getting away with this. You don't need to do anything right when you rent-seek most of the online world.
How is this rent seeking and not just profit seeking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking
'Rent seeking' doesn't refer to the same kind of 'rent', of course, but I think the analogy holds up pretty well. All Google has to do is turn a few screws, and the rest of us will have no choice but to sing whatever tune they call.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Having a 'support everything forever' approach is obviously going to impose a huge burden on the teams who maintain this stuff which is then going to limit the ability to make anything better And yet AWS is doing just that while innovating at the same time.
AWS depreciate things too, though. For example https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/amazon-s3-path-deprecation-...
[1] "Depreciate" is something else.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I specifically said that I was not shaming $150k. You graduated from college and are now making more than most developers in the US and you work at a big tech company. You have the opportunity to leverage that and either get promoted from within or change jobs. Are you really struggling making $150K straight out of college? You graduated from a state school (as did I) you probably don’t have that much debt. For conte…
>You have the opportunity to leverage that and either get promoted from within or change jobs. I think the real problem is I'm not capable of doing so, at least according to the fair labor market. > Are you really struggling making $150K straight out of college? You graduated from a state school (as did I) you probably don’t have that much debt. I don't have any debt, I just have a really pathetic savings rate and a…
I hate that we as a society can say that if you have signs of cancer go see an oncologist and it’s not okay to say that if you show signs of mental health issues go see a professional.
But everything about your comments and your user name points to it.
It's odd to see an article emphasising backwards compatibility, but not a single mention of Microsoft (I even ctrl+F'd the page source to check!) They've regressed a bit in the recent years but I'd still consider MS the gold standard for back-compat. I have Win32 binaries I last modified over 15 years ago, small (or perhaps tiny - size measured in KBs) utilities that I use daily. They worked perfectly on Win95, and s…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The promotion system isn't the issue, the promotion system was the issue 10 years ago. For the last 10 years Google has been hiring and promoting and keeping people who prioritize shiny new things more than maintaining old things. If you start rewarding maintaining old things you aren't going to suddenly get what you want, you're just going to lose a tonne of people because they don't want to do what you're telling t…
> you're just going to lose a tonne of people because they don't want to do what you're telling them and you won't be able to hire good people with your priorities because no one is going to believe they can have a good career at Google by prioritizing stability and long term support I don't follow. Wouldn't ridding Google of its reputation for inadequate maintenance, make it a more prestigious employer? Its reputati…
> Let’s say hypothetically that Apple was dumb enough to pull a Guido van Rossum, and declare that Swift 6.0 is backwards-incompatible with Swift 5.0, much in the way that Python 3 is incompatible with Python 2. Damn, I was waiting for this. The whole essay was a setup for this paragraph. Reframes the argument using a shared traumatic experience for everyone. This humanizes the effect, we all know someone that lost s…
I don't get the Python3 bw-incompatibility hate. Getting rid of cruft is literally the only way to get rid of cruft. It's literally the Pythonic to not have cruft. I dread the day Python will be as bloated as C++ or Java, neither that dare to remove things.
Joking mostly aside, python is way way closer to C++ in terms of language feature bloat; where Java is notoriously spartan and slow moving (moreso historically).
Ofcourse I know you're also reffering to standard lib gunk but that's relatively less impactful.
The big issue with the python 3 shift was when you touch something as substantial, subtle, and pervasive as strings you're going to cause problems. I wont speak to if it was worth it.
> Let’s say hypothetically that Apple was dumb enough to pull a Guido van Rossum, and declare that Swift 6.0 is backwards-incompatible with Swift 5.0, much in the way that Python 3 is incompatible with Python 2. Damn, I was waiting for this. The whole essay was a setup for this paragraph. Reframes the argument using a shared traumatic experience for everyone. This humanizes the effect, we all know someone that lost s…
I don't get the Python3 bw-incompatibility hate. Getting rid of cruft is literally the only way to get rid of cruft. It's literally the Pythonic to not have cruft. I dread the day Python will be as bloated as C++ or Java, neither that dare to remove things.
Also the python 2 string type was more in line with how other unix utilities work, so while I do think the 3 string type is generally better for the web, it wasn't an obvious improvement for the other large usage of python. While it's a very versatile language, I would say the major niches of python are: web dev, shell scripting, and scientific computing. The changes in python 3 were (somewhat) helpful for web dev, but really were inconsequential and/or actively harmful for the other uses.
Mixed with how condescending the python dev team acted about it, and how it really wasn't until about python 3.6 that there was any compelling reason to move to python 3,you can see where most of the hate comes from.
And by the way, even if Python is very popular today, I do think that rift really hurt the language. I worked at least at one company where Python was considered for a project, but eventually shelved because of management's confusion over the 2/3 issue.
I think Google couldn't do better, even if they wanted to. The reason is the engineering culture and the promotion system. People expect to switch to new projects, and work towards to a promotion within 2-3 years. This shows in all products, and presumalby also the reason for the deprecation. New people come on the project, want and need to do a major overhaul, and do not have resource or incentives to support the ol…
My armchair thought: what if the CEO said "wow, Yegge is right, we've gotten really off trail here. you need to show leadership in maintaining a 3+ year old system at Google for promotions?" Could that happen and would it work?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Give me a break. Lots of teams in Google have restrictive travel policies and never see the pointy end of a plane. Massages cost money. Holiday gifts ceased to exist years ago. I'm also quite surprised by your wage comment: a common aphorism is that Amazon cheaps out on everything except real estate and compensation.
> Lots of teams in Google have restrictive travel policies and never see the pointy end of a plane. Which ones do and don't? Because all of the ones I've heard of have pretty loose ones compared to my organization. And yes, Amazon doesn't cheap out on real estate because we own so much of it . It's honestly remarkable how it's done. But I was under the impression everyone knows they pay less.