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The Montessori Mafia

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Re: The Montessori Mafia

#71

Post by zipdog »

crpatino wrote: post #61
ronnier wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We weren't taught the alphabet until the age of about 6-7 My daughter is 1.5 years old and knows almost all of the alphabet. Is this a good thing or bad thing?

Neither good or bad. It is a clue that she probably is good at "symbolic thinking". More of this stuff to come in the near future. Just make sure she has plenty of chances to develop this (probably innate) ability. On the other hand, as she grows up, you probably should keep an eye on her and help to mitigate any shortcomings that'd eventually show up. But this is the same with all children anyway.

It could be a clue about symbolic thinking, or it might be the result of the approach used.

I've seen an approach where letter-shaped toys are handed out as toys, which provides a concrete object to associate to the letter. Children using this seem to be able to pick up the alphabet around 1 year old fairly easily.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#72

Post by onan_barbarian »

TillE wrote: post #54
mirkules wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was born and raised until age 12 in an eastern European country, and I will tell you that I was shocked when I first set foot in an American classroom in 6th grade - they were learning "longhand" division, something I did in grade 2. What I take away from your anecdote combined with my personal experience isn't that the Montessori system is really awesome or that European schools rock, but that the public education…

> I was shocked when I first set foot in an American classroom in 6th grade - they were learning "longhand" division, something I did in grade 2. I attended an American public school in the suburbs of New York 20-some years ago, and I very clearly remember learning long division in second grade. I remember it because I missed that day, and the teacher told me to learn it from a friend, which didn't work out so well.…

Wow, you all must be genuises or something.

I went to a decent primary school in Australia and spend a year ( out of phase, so put forward into the second half of Year 3 and then Year 4) in the US at age 8. The thing that threw me at this age, that was part of the natural progression in that stage, was 'subtract with carry' (I'm pretty sure that was it).

I was 'put forward' past this interesting tidbit in my US school, assessed on a test that was almost entirely centeres around it, found wanting, and placed in the lowest class in school with about 7 streams. Each test I moved up a class. All up they regarded it as a triumph of American education :-)

Neither of these schools was terrible, either, and both had 'subtract with carry' around year 3. That's a far cry from longhand division.

No-one at my kids current school is doing long division in Year 2, either, although I have creeping doubts about its rigor.

I am hoping this pace continued for all y'all, so that you were doing calculus in Year 7, and proving exotic conjectures by Erdős in your first or second year of university, etc. :-)

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#73

Post by msg »

araneae wrote: post #62
ziadbc wrote: post #4

I really like the idea of Montessori, and if I have the cash I'd like to send my future kids there someday. That being said, I see correlation here, not causation. To be a little bit tongue and cheek, I could write the headline: "99% of successful people do not attend Montessori schools"

You too can cheaply imitate a Montessori school by a)Taking your kid out of public school and b)Encourage your kid to do things he finds interesting with you at home and take him to museums and crap True, it requires a mostly unemployed parent, but Montessori has just discovered how kids learn naturally at a young age. Just like a kid learns a language without having to be formally taught, he learns other things with…

My wife and I are somewhat nervously heading this direction after one year of kindergarten with our autistic son. Homeschooling just seems to be a better fit.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#74

Post by calpaterson »

ellyagg wrote: post #57
timr wrote: post #5

"When Barbara Walters, who interviewed Google founders Messrs. Page and Brin in 2004, asked if having parents who were college professors was a major factor behind their success, they instead credited their early Montessori education" Ahem. I spy a latent variable in this correlation. Can you find it? Hint: Montessori education may or may not have advantages. But unless you control for educational background and inco…

"Montessori education may or may not have advantages. But unless you control for educational background and income of the family, your analysis has a problem." This WAS controlled for. Correct analysis WAS done, peer reviewed, and published. It's a shame this is so highly upvoted. Pointing out that correlation does not equal causation is the very first most obvious criticism to make of a finding, but don't sail in wi…

The cited study found improvements, not latent billionaireism. The broader claim is wild speculation.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#75

Post by noahc »

ILIKECAKE wrote: post #40

I went too Montessori and I am sitting behind a damn desk administering systems...looks like I missed the awewsomness bus

I down voted you and the reason why is that I think your thought is a fair thought to have but you're not adding anything to the conversation. Please expand on why you missed the awesome bus, or tell us more about your experiences so we can be better informed about Montessori.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#76

Post by damla »

Maria Montessori lived in Italy a 100 years ago, and no doubt she was a reformist. She was the first woman doctor, she worked with children with mental disabilities when children was not considered humans, and she noticed that, her approach is applicable to all children. She invented very useful methods and tools for teaching preschoolers. She made wonderful toys which are now called "Montessori Materials". Her method is spread to US, and "adapted".

Montessori teachers are certified largely by two centers in the world, in Italy (http://www.montessori-ami.org/), and in US (http://www.amshq.org/). As far as I know AMI sees itself as the "original" Montessori, rejects others, and more strict in many ways, like they don't allow any toys in classrooms, they don't have any books (just lapbooks produced by teachers or children).

I have real problems with strict, spiritual Montessori. Why would we be against to toys? Maria Montessori crafted wonderful toys for her students, and now they are called "Montessori Materials". What's wrong with Lego's? I think if Maria Montessori had Lego, she would use them.

Montessori, Waldorf, Reggio Emilia, all have different methods to inspire for raising kids and even for start-ups (http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10...). But, none is magic.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#77

Post by mirkules »

onan_barbarian wrote: post #72
TillE wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was shocked when I first set foot in an American classroom in 6th grade - they were learning "longhand" division, something I did in grade 2. I attended an American public school in the suburbs of New York 20-some years ago, and I very clearly remember learning long division in second grade. I remember it because I missed that day, and the teacher told me to learn it from a friend, which didn't work out so well.…

Wow, you all must be genuises or something. I went to a decent primary school in Australia and spend a year ( out of phase, so put forward into the second half of Year 3 and then Year 4) in the US at age 8. The thing that threw me at this age, that was part of the natural progression in that stage, was 'subtract with carry' (I'm pretty sure that was it). I was 'put forward' past this interesting tidbit in my US schoo…

I don't know about exotic conjectures by Erdos (nice one, btw), but in elementary school I distinctly remember in second grade my dad ripped my He-Man comic books because I failed a test in my math class. After that, two things happened: 1) I studied really hard for my final end-of-year exam and remember that we were dealing with simple algebra with variables (e.g. x - 5 = 3, find x), and 2) I never read comic books since (sad, I know).

I was really lucky to have a good math teacher in middle school who introduced us to logic and induction in seventh grade (in hindsight, he prepared me for linear algebra in college, and I haven't even heard the words "modus ponens" since middle school until I got to college, second or third year).

Unfortunately, in high school I decided to coast a little bit on my previous knowledge, so I didn't get good grades, but I didn't read comic books anymore anyway, and my dad couldn't just rip the computer apart because he is a techie too :)

Edit: the seventh grade teacher is in the US, he taught "magnet" (gifted) classes. So, not all hope is lost in the US. Good teachers and good classes exist even in public schools, we just need to bring up the standard.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#78

Post by speleding »

My kids (4 & 7) just moved from a traditional school to a Montessori school last summer because we moved house. I wasn't completely sold on the philosophy yet but my kids LIKE going to school a lot more now and it seems to work really well. Happy kids, learning a lot.

But it is very counterintuitive for the engineer in me who wants to measure progress by how much of the alphabet they know. It takes a lot of trust in the somewhat nebulous and touchy feely Montessori philosophy, if you read the wikipedia page about it you'll see that even the educators can't agree on what it is exactly. (Montessori did use scientific methods to arrive at her recommendations, but interpretations differ). There's things the type of educators in such schools do that makes us rational people cringe (kids are not allowed artificial flavoring in their lunch food...). But, well, it works (for my kids at least).

Since I am too rational to give up on measuring I conclude we are probably not measuring progress the right way by testing how much letters in the alphabet they know.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#79

Post by m_myers »

3pt14159 wrote: post #55
slay2k wrote: post #3

I've been thinking about how I'd educate my own kids, and currently it's a tossup between the Harkness approach a la Phillips Exeter, the entirely home-schooled approach, and something like this which seems like a hybrid. If anyone has experience with any of the above, I'd love to hear about it.

DO NOT do full time homeschooling, my mom tried it with me for grades 2 and 3 (as we were moving around) and the results were horrible socially. Do a private school.

DO full time homeschooling; my parents tried it with me and the results were great.

Two can play this game. :)

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#80

Post by Afton »

zipdog wrote: post #71
crpatino wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither good or bad. It is a clue that she probably is good at "symbolic thinking". More of this stuff to come in the near future. Just make sure she has plenty of chances to develop this (probably innate) ability. On the other hand, as she grows up, you probably should keep an eye on her and help to mitigate any shortcomings that'd eventually show up. But this is the same with all children anyway.

It could be a clue about symbolic thinking, or it might be the result of the approach used. I've seen an approach where letter-shaped toys are handed out as toys, which provides a concrete object to associate to the letter. Children using this seem to be able to pick up the alphabet around 1 year old fairly easily.

The important thing is that, as a parent, it's easy to fall into the trap of comparing milestones. There isn't the evidence that e.g. knowing the alphabet early means being a better reader later in life. Just like early walking milestones don't lead to 'better walking'.
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