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Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis

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Re: Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis

#51

Post by burtonator »

There's simply no way that this type of fungus could absorb enough radiation simply because it's not dense enough.

If you want to absorb radiation you have to block it which means it has to come into contact with matter.

The only way you can do this is to have either a smaller volumetric amount of something that's dense (lead, gold, uranium, etc) or a LARGE amount of something less dense (water, concrete, etc).

If you're just talking about an organic organism, sure, it can use the radiation BUT you'd need to have a MASSIVE amount of it in terms of volume and weight.

Simply put, the fungus itself is sparse when looking at it from a subatomic perspective. Most of the radiation passes right through it.

Re: Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis

#52

Post by qubex »

What’s astonishing is not the ability to block radiation (after all, biology will always defer to chemistry first, and physics second—there’s no way biology can come up with something that exceeds the capabilities of its substrates) but rather life’s way of rapidly adapting to make use of whichever energy source it can find to eke out an energy budget to thrive on.

P.S. Who else heard Dr Ian Malcom say “Life... finds a way” in their head?

Re: Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis

#53

Post by barbegal »

agumonkey wrote: post #44
barbegal wrote: post #31

I am skeptical that this fungus absorbs radiation significantly more than the equivalent amount of water would. The paper [1] isn't very clear about possible inaccuracies in the results and I don't understand why this experiment hasn't been repeated down on Earth. The mass attenuation coefficient of the fungus is 0.234 cm^2/g at 100MeV whereas water is 0.0166 cm^2/g according to this paper [2]. [1] https://www.biorxi…

still worth for the conversion of radiative energy to biological activity nuclear waste may become green :)

Not really, almost all the radiation is converted to heat just like in any shielding material.

Re: Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis

#54

Post by jojobas »

burtonator wrote: post #51

There's simply no way that this type of fungus could absorb enough radiation simply because it's not dense enough. If you want to absorb radiation you have to block it which means it has to come into contact with matter. The only way you can do this is to have either a smaller volumetric amount of something that's dense (lead, gold, uranium, etc) or a LARGE amount of something less dense (water, concrete, etc). If yo…

Absorbtion is a misnomer.

It uses a tiny fraction of energy of whatever particle it is. In terms of attenuation it cant be different from anything else of similar density and composition.

Re: Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis

#55

Post by DarthGhandi »

burtonator wrote: post #51

There's simply no way that this type of fungus could absorb enough radiation simply because it's not dense enough. If you want to absorb radiation you have to block it which means it has to come into contact with matter. The only way you can do this is to have either a smaller volumetric amount of something that's dense (lead, gold, uranium, etc) or a LARGE amount of something less dense (water, concrete, etc). If yo…

Given we are taking about space here I'm quite sure water outperforms per kg compared to the others you've mentioned.

Fairly certain there's no high-Z solid that could compete on cost to orbit.

Re: Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis

#56

Post by walleeee »

qubex wrote: post #52

What’s astonishing is not the ability to block radiation (after all, biology will always defer to chemistry first, and physics second—there’s no way biology can come up with something that exceeds the capabilities of its substrates) but rather life’s way of rapidly adapting to make use of whichever energy source it can find to eke out an energy budget to thrive on. P.S. Who else heard Dr Ian Malcom say “ Life... find…

Life can't exceed the capabilities of its substrates on their own terms, but it's not clear that life can be fully explained in or reduced to those terms either.

Anyways, yes, this is super cool.

Re: Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis

#57

Post by chongli »

burtonator wrote: post #51

There's simply no way that this type of fungus could absorb enough radiation simply because it's not dense enough. If you want to absorb radiation you have to block it which means it has to come into contact with matter. The only way you can do this is to have either a smaller volumetric amount of something that's dense (lead, gold, uranium, etc) or a LARGE amount of something less dense (water, concrete, etc). If yo…

I think the whole framing of this discussion is inappropriate. The interesting thing about this fungus is that it can use the radiation as an energy source to sustain life. The fact that we can’t use the fungus as some kind of miracle lightweight radiation shield is missing the point.

Here we have a life form that has adapted to make use of a very unusual (on earth’s surface, anyway) energy source. That should not be taken for granted. It’s an amazing demonstration of the adaptability of life. It also warrants a deeper investigation into how this ability works and how it came about by evolutionary processes.

Re: Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis

#58

Post by danielheath »

LockAndLol wrote: post #20
gpuhacker wrote: post #2

For a nonvideo source of info on this: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.16.205534v1

And for a layman digestible version https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/radiation-helps-f... (from 2007)

> digestible version

Ooh, was wondering if the fungi were good to eat /s

Re: Fungus at Chernobyl absorbs nuclear radiation via radiosynthesis

#60

Post by agumonkey »

barbegal wrote: post #53
agumonkey wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

still worth for the conversion of radiative energy to biological activity nuclear waste may become green :)

Not really, almost all the radiation is converted to heat just like in any shielding material.

hum isn't it more efficient to divert it into "productive" chemical active than average heat (then used for whatever) ?
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