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Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

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Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#991

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

warmind99 wrote: post #989
ecf wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single C-suite executive should be required to take a (2 * % of employees laid off) pay cut. Lay off 25% of your company? Enjoy your 50% pay cut. Have to lay off 50%? Enjoy working unpaid for a year while you rebuild.

Coming from the finance world, there's a very good reason that doesn't happen. In situations where a company is spiraling, everyone is incentivized to leave for new work. The people who are most competent at work are also most capable of getting new jobs, so what used to happen before it was standard was as a company died, the best people left, and the company died faster. If you axe the CEO's pay by 50% one year, wh…

While I fully understand the logic of what you're saying, this is what makes us peons despise the upper execs, as they've turned it into a game of "Heads I win, tails you lose".

I mean, if you're a great CEO, you're lavished with Midas-level wealth. If you're an absolute shitty CEO, you're also lavished with let's say Midas-junior-level wealth in the form of retention bonuses and/or golden parachutes to fix the mess you created (as you, no doubt, axe a large number of your underlings).

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#992

Post by pkilgore »

growlist wrote: post #491
pkilgore wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild to live in a world where a guiding philosophy of maybe we as a society should make best efforts to treat people with maximum kindness is mistaken for "absolute tyranny".

Including cancel culture? You don't think this is all part of the same push?

What is cancel culture?

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#993

Post by pkilgore »

growlist wrote: post #491
pkilgore wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild to live in a world where a guiding philosophy of maybe we as a society should make best efforts to treat people with maximum kindness is mistaken for "absolute tyranny".

Including cancel culture? You don't think this is all part of the same push?

Fwiw a United States where people are forced to give other people attention and money against their will is neither kind, nor has it ever existed.

You would not want to live there.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#994

Post by sjg007 »

momokoko wrote: post #850
vages wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to respectfully disagree. It is common for leaders to re-state their entity's reason for being as they bring bad news. See Churchill's speeches during the battle of France, for instance. I think this opening was well-written and clearly communicated Mozilla's purpose. You can blame it for being populist, but don't hate the player, hate the game.

This lay-off is not because of Covid or racism. It is because of the overwhelmingly awful executive leadership at Mozilla. Watching Mozilla leadership drive Mozilla into the ground over the last 8-10 years has been like watching a bus accident in slow motion. FirefoxOS anyone? The only benefit Mozilla now provides is a warning to companies that place how liked and popular employees are over how skilled and hard worki…

Well ChromeOS was successful so you could see Firefox OS as an alternative in the market. They both came out at the same time. There were of course 6 different table/mobile OSes at the time. Maybe it was a difference in execution. Or maybe resources.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#995

Post by ryanmarsh »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #547
dblohm7 wrote: post #258

[I am a Mozilla employee, and yes, I do recognize how my position influences my perspective.] One thing that always frustrates me a bit whenever Mozilla comes up on HN or elsewhere is that we are always held to impossibly high standards. Yes, as a non-profit, we should be held to higher standards, but not impossible standards. OTOH, sometimes it just seems unreasonable and absurd. Stuff like, to paraphrase, "Look at…

I certainly don't think the corporate doublespeak is reason to switch to Chrome, but I do think the corporate doublespeak in this announcement is just awful. When you're doing a layoff, just announce the layoff, show compassion to the affected employees, and if you want to announce other changes, do it in a separate announcement. Putting stuff about the fight against systemic racism in the opening paragraph of a layo…

I’m curious of the racial makeup of the lay-off. Are they fighting systemic racism or not?

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#996

Post by andor »

0xDEEPFAC wrote: post #986
andor wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is still Webkit. Zoom is a native application.

Zoom is electon based.

How did you get that idea?

This is what an Electron app looks like:

  $ ls Atom.app/Contents/Frameworks
  Electron Framework.framework
  other stuff...
You might also find a bunch of js files lying around:

  $ find Atom.app -name *.js
  Atom.app/Contents/Resources/app/apm/node_modules/chainsaw/index.js
  Atom.app/Contents/Resources/app/apm/node_modules/fs-constants/index.js
  Atom.app/Contents/Resources/app/apm/node_modules/fs-constants/browser.js
  very long list...
Whereas these are the frameworks Zoom ships with:

  $ ls zoom.us.app/Contents/Frameworks/
  CptHost.app              asproxy.framework        nydus.framework          zMacRes.bundle
  Scintilla.framework      caphost.app              protobuf.framework       zMacResRetina.bundle
  Transcode.app            cmmlib.framework         ssb_sdk.bundle           zSIPCallUI.bundle
  ZCommonUI.framework      curl64.framework         tp.framework             zSIPSDK.bundle
  ZMScreenshot.app         faac.bundle              util.framework           zSipCallApp.bundle
  ZoomPhone.app            libcrypto.1.0.0.dylib    viper.framework          zVideoApp.bundle
  ZoomUninstaller.app      libmpg123_mac.bundle     xmpp_framework.framework zVideoUI.bundle
  airhost.app              libssl.1.0.0.dylib       zAutoUpdate.bundle       zWebService.bundle
  annoter.bundle           libz.dylib               zChatApp.bundle          zlt.bundle
  aomagent.bundle          mcm.bundle               zChatUI.bundle           zmLoader.bundle
  aomhost.app              mphost.app               zData.bundle             zmb.bundle
Instead of Javascript files there are tons of Interface Builder files in the bundle:

  $ find zoom.us.app -name *.nib
  zoom.us.app/Contents/Resources/en.lproj/MainMenu.nib
  zoom.us.app/Contents/Frameworks/zChatUI.bundle/Contents/Resources/ZMSettingRecordingViewController.nib
  zoom.us.app/Contents/Frameworks/zChatUI.bundle/Contents/Resources/ZMChatsSearchField.nib
  zoom.us.app/Contents/Frameworks/zChatUI.bundle/Contents/Resources/loadingInfoView.nib
  zoom.us.app/Contents/Frameworks/zChatUI.bundle/Contents/Resources/ZMDiagnosticViewController.nib
  ...
A Linux job opening: https://zoom.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/Zoom/job/Phoenix-AZ...

  - 5 years of C/C++ programming experience.
  - 3 years of experience in Linux native application development.
  - Having experience in QT development is preferred.
Mac OS job opening: https://zoom.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/Zoom/job/Phoenix-AZ...

  - 2 years of experience in MacOS native client development.
  - Proficient in C++, Xcode, Objective-C and Cocoa Framework.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#997

Post by ficiek »

dblohm7 wrote: post #258

[I am a Mozilla employee, and yes, I do recognize how my position influences my perspective.] One thing that always frustrates me a bit whenever Mozilla comes up on HN or elsewhere is that we are always held to impossibly high standards. Yes, as a non-profit, we should be held to higher standards, but not impossible standards. OTOH, sometimes it just seems unreasonable and absurd. Stuff like, to paraphrase, "Look at…

>Sure, Mozilla has made mistakes. Did we apologize? Did we learn anything? Did we work to prevent it happening again?

Uh... no?

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#999

Post by llsf »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #366
llsf wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could have seen Mozilla build an enhanced email service like Hey! Actually, they could still probably do it, it would align with their focus on privacy and experience with email reader.

True, email requires more players to stay federated and would have reflected well with Mozilla's supposed ethos. But, I seriously doubt whether Mozilla would have pulled off what Hey did in terms of marketing. Mozilla's marketing for the hypothetical email service would have been like ProtonMail without the advantage of 'Switzerland/CERN' brand. Also, ProtonMail has now gone all guns on Apple following Hey, which I d…

While Mozilla would likely not go head on against Apple, Mozilla still have some aura especially in the Silicon Valley. Who knows, they might have cut a deal with Apple...

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#1000

Post by GnarfGnarf »

0xcoffee wrote: post #299
GnarfGnarf wrote: post #121

I wish they would get their "Send" feature up & running again. It's so simple for one-off's, better than DropBox. https://send.firefox.com/

I agree, this is the only Mozilla service I ever used. However https://transfer.sh/ is a good alternative.

Thank you 0xcoffee! This is perfect for what I need.
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