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The Montessori Mafia

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Re: The Montessori Mafia

#31

Post by petercooper »

Terretta wrote: post #17

Only if your education differed from the so-called basket of techniques lumped together as "the Montessori method". It's been my experience that a home environment with parents who read and care about expanding horizons will tend to offer the children guided "self-directed" learning, observation and indirect teaching, and productive routines of "focused" activities versus idle play, and these children will tend to ou…

I agree. I'm planning to send my daughter to a Montessori school but only when she reaches school age (4/5). She can get most of the same benefits before then at home and even at "normal" nurseries (because the latter has no curriculum but encourages the self discovery and play). Age 5 through 11 seems more important for the Montessori concepts to sink in.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#32

Post by mirkules »

Kylekramer wrote: post #6
jsulak wrote: post #2

Interesting article, but what about Steve Jobs? Warren Buffet? Bill Gates? It's easy to pick a few examples of anything, but it doesn't make it a real trend.

For one, all the people you mentioned were in preschool before the Montessori craze really took over in the States and all the ones the article mentioned besides Julia Child were later. And of course, you will never find 100% success in one method and 0% success in all others. But the Montessori method is fascinating, and does have a few studies backing it. On a personal level as a Montessori kid, I know it definitel…

I think the GP's isn't to discredit the Montessori method via counter-example, but rather to show that people have been successful long before the Montessori method came about (as you mentioned) and will continue to be successful and productive long after the craze has died down.

At the same time, just because someone went to a Montessori school doesn't automatically mean they will be a successful person. My wife worked in a Montessori school a while ago and I can't say that I agree with their method of teaching - and this is coming from a guy who went to LAUSD from grade 6 and up.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#33

Post by Alex3917 »

ladon86 wrote: post #11

I went to a Waldorf/Steiner school, which shares some of these traits such as the lack of a focus on assessment and grading and the emphasis on creativity. We weren't taught the alphabet until the age of about 6-7 and basic arithmetic at 7-8. We did begin learning foreign languages at age 6, however. In practice my older brother taught me to read and count well before the Steiner curriculum did, but I still think tha…

"There's a reason the really big hitters are often first-time entrepreneurs - they are naive enough to try."

I think it's often because they don't understand the difference between a good product and a good business, so their expected outcomes tend to be at the extremes. Some of them end up doing ridiculously well, but overall I wouldn't consider not understanding lead gen, sales cycles, margins, cashflow, lifetime customer value, etc. to be a virtue.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#34

Post by mirkules »

jarin wrote: post #22
Kylekramer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, all the people you mentioned were in preschool before the Montessori craze really took over in the States and all the ones the article mentioned besides Julia Child were later. And of course, you will never find 100% success in one method and 0% success in all others. But the Montessori method is fascinating, and does have a few studies backing it. On a personal level as a Montessori kid, I know it definitel…

I don't remember most of my Montessori school experience (other than making baked apples and learning how to wrap a sari), but I know that despite going to a very competitive and exclusive K-12 school afterward, I was one of only two kids in my kindergarten class who could already read. I used to sit in the back of the room and read during nap time. I also vaguely remember having a head start on math as well, which a…

I was born and raised until age 12 in an eastern European country, and I will tell you that I was shocked when I first set foot in an American classroom in 6th grade - they were learning "longhand" division, something I did in grade 2.

What I take away from your anecdote combined with my personal experience isn't that the Montessori system is really awesome or that European schools rock, but that the public education system in America is really terrible.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#35

Post by icco »

bediger wrote: post #18

Why does this result surprise anyone? Traditional US schools exist not to cultivate individuality, and make people more expressive and creative, but rather for different reasons. Grade school is designed to teach people enough to read The Bible, and enough writing and arithmetic to not get cheated by the fancy, downtown shop keepers. High school is designed to teach the bulk of the citizenry to work according to a fi…

That sounds like a bit of a stretch. American public education focuses on learning the basics so you can be then trained by either your occupation (ala factory worker, etc.) or by your next institution (university). On top of that depending on where you grow up, the school focuses more on one or the other. Grow up in the bay area, there is a higher chance your school will focus on getting kids into a university. Grow up in an agricultural community, you learn more skills associated with living on a farm (more focus on basic economics, biology). But then again, this is just what I observed. It's possible that if you grew up in the midwest, they taught you to read the bible. I know that's what they taught my mom in Missouri in the 1950s. No idea if it's still the case.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#36

Post by teej »

gxs wrote: post #21
timr wrote: post #5

"When Barbara Walters, who interviewed Google founders Messrs. Page and Brin in 2004, asked if having parents who were college professors was a major factor behind their success, they instead credited their early Montessori education" Ahem. I spy a latent variable in this correlation. Can you find it? Hint: Montessori education may or may not have advantages. But unless you control for educational background and inco…

This is exactly right. I suspect that the parents of people who attend Montessori schools are more educated than average to begin with. Go into an inner city Los Angeles elementary, and I guarantee you the great majority of parents wont have even heard of the name. TL;DR: the parents of people who care enough about their education to enroll them in a montessori school, would have probably turned out pretty bright kid…

The article mentions a study that shows the direct influence of a Montessori school. The study was published in Science. You can read it here:

http://www.montessori-science.org/montessori_science_journal... (click "see article full text")

An excerpt:

    On several dimensions, children at a public inner city Montessori school 
    had superior outcomes relative to a sample of Montessori applicants who, 
    because of a random lottery, attended other schools. By the end of 
    kindergarten, the Montessori children performed better on standardized 
    tests of reading and math, engaged in more positive interaction on 
    the playground, and showed more advanced social cognition and 
    executive control.
TL;DR: Montessori kids turn out better on many measures when controlling for "bright parents".

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#37

Post by kbutler »

bostonpete wrote: post #25
gxs wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly right. I suspect that the parents of people who attend Montessori schools are more educated than average to begin with. Go into an inner city Los Angeles elementary, and I guarantee you the great majority of parents wont have even heard of the name. TL;DR: the parents of people who care enough about their education to enroll them in a montessori school, would have probably turned out pretty bright kid…

> the parents of people who care enough about their education to enroll them in a montessori school... Really? You think it's just a matter of caring enough to make it so? I think I'd phrase this differently -- that the parents of people who have the means to send them to a montessori school probably would have the means to give them other advantages in life as well, so their kids are probably going to do pretty well…

> the parents of people who have the means to send them to a montessori school probably would have the means to give them other advantages in life as well, so their kids are probably going to do pretty well regardless.

I disagree with the emphasis on the "means" of the family. Contrast the success of immigrant families who struggle to get an education for a child with the wastrel habits of many "rich kids".

Care is critical. Wealth may be helpful.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#38

Post by ajju »

jsavimbi wrote: post #13

I can't speak for the higher end of Montessori as I only attended when I was just starting out my career in education, but I found it to be rewarding for someone with a wandering mind, more so than the strict rote-based Catholic-influenced education I was subjected to further on. I also experienced British private school, and that was definitely better than public but without the scientific approach that I saw at Mon…

>If the child is a dullard, don't waste too much money on them as you'll need it for later on for when they really fuck up.

In my experience, barring truly mentally challenged children, most children classified as 'dullards' by the education system just don't understand how to cope with the traditional model of teaching. Once someone takes the time to understand them and teaches them how to 'work the system' while still learning, or once they themselves realize that they can take things in their own hands, they shine. I have seen this time and again with cousins, friends and a bunch of kids my mom taught when I was growing up (She is a teacher).

So, if the public school teacher thinks your child is a dullard, it may be a much wiser investment in my opinion to consider educational institutes that will pay a bit more attention to the child's needs. In fact, it may not even take that, it may just take one good, concerned teacher to understand why the kid can't cope, gain their trust, and then teach them how to get the most out of the existing system.

All of this is IMHO, and I am not a teacher, just someone who has seen a lot of kids suffering because of how they were labelled as dullards and subsequently ignored for years by teachers AND given up on by parents. I have also seen 'dullards' change course and shine, once they had the right help.

Re: The Montessori Mafia

#39

Post by il »

ladon86 wrote: post #11

I went to a Waldorf/Steiner school, which shares some of these traits such as the lack of a focus on assessment and grading and the emphasis on creativity. We weren't taught the alphabet until the age of about 6-7 and basic arithmetic at 7-8. We did begin learning foreign languages at age 6, however. In practice my older brother taught me to read and count well before the Steiner curriculum did, but I still think tha…

I think it comes down to the fact that, considering the work involved and that the majority of startups fail, it's never an economically rational decision to work on a startup. Realistic to most people means in the "real world" you follow a safe familiar progression from school to entry level job to management to retirement. There are guide rails and evaluations along the way to make sure you're on track.

You found a startup because you wouldn't be happy doing anything else.

I can't imagine getting a real job. Ever. For me, the set of things I could be doing with my life is {startup}.

I remember seeing a quote from some very successful founder saying that the only reason he went into entrepreneurship is because he was completely unemployable.

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