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Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You

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Re: Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You

#91
There are always trade-offs though.

1) If you're busy maintaining backward compat, you're not busy building innovative new things -- Microsoft. 'nuf said.

2) You have a built-in excuse to not make your new stuff equal in functionality or greater to the old stuff, because hey, customers can just use the old stuff right? I built some software that talks to O365 Sharepoint. Ok, I have two choices of API: the older Sharepoint API or the newer Graph API. They recommend Graph, ok. Build the product and put it into production. Get a new customer requirement for fine-grained auth, and then find out that Graph doesn't handle fine-grained auth -- only the Sharepoint API does that. Oops. Ask Microsoft when that capability is coming to Graph? No timeline, because the Sharepoint API isn't deprecated.

3) Keeping old stuff working may be easier, but building new stuff is harder because the landscape is muddier -- how many times have you looked at Microsoft docs and found multiple ways to do things with no idea if the docs you're looking at actually apply to the approach you're using now?

I think there are ways to have (mostly) the best of both worlds. Linux does it by bring as much stuff in-tree as they can -- they break compat all the time for out-of-tree stuff. Ever try to keep a proprietary VMWare module building without errors? In-tree KVM never breaks because they're super careful with the ABI. Some languages have explicit mechanisms by which they attempt to keep things current, but make it easier on users -- Kotlin is an example of this [1] but its a young language so time will tell whether they can actually thread this needle. My experience so far is yes, I think they can -- I've updated code from Kotlin 1.2 to 1.3 to 1.4 with relatively little pain.

[1] https://kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/evolution/kotlin-evolu...

Re: Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You

#92

Clearly author is making things up - there were no gummy sharks in micro kitchens. Sergey spoke at lengths about this. > I considered using Google Cloud Bigtable for my online game, but it costs an estimated $16,000/year for an empty Bigtable on GCP. I’m not saying they’re gouging you Ok, but they are

https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/07/google-cloud-makes-it-chea...

Re: Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You

#93
I had a few laughs with this, but (maybe because I have been using Python since 1.2) I just can't relate to the Python bits.

I migrated all my "working set" stuff to Python 3 piecemeal over a couple of weeks and never looked back (except when I needed to pick up some older project and take an hour or so to refactor it).

The "There Will Come Soft Rains" reference, however, was brilliant. I hadn't thought of that story for _decades_ and it hit home.

Re: Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You

#94

It's odd to see an article emphasising backwards compatibility, but not a single mention of Microsoft (I even ctrl+F'd the page source to check!) They've regressed a bit in the recent years but I'd still consider MS the gold standard for back-compat. I have Win32 binaries I last modified over 15 years ago, small (or perhaps tiny - size measured in KBs) utilities that I use daily. They worked perfectly on Win95, and s…

The absolute worst in my small experience with it is anything touching the node ecosystem. Try to follow any guide or use any library not updated in the last week and there will be breaking API changes and deprecation warnings everywhere.

The sad part about the js ecosystem is that even the biggest corps like Google can't keep their own js ecosystem stable on the last version. I have a small Angular app with Firebase backend and every time I come back to it to update, the libs are out of sync

Re: Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You

#95
post #35

I'd be interested in some concrete examples of things GCP have depreciated. I'm an (admittedly fairly light) user of GCP and haven't come across any myself.

I saw that he mentioned a few of them in the article. He writes: I can tell you that virtually everything I’ve used, from networking (legacy to VPC) to storage (Cloud SQL v1 to v2) to Firebase (now Firestore with a totally different API) to App Engine (don’t even get me started) to Cloud Endpoints to... I dunno, _everything_, has forced me to rewrite it all after at most 2–3 years.

I work on Firebase. His characterization of Firestore is incorrect and lazy. It did not replace Realtime Database (which is the product he’s calling Firebase) they are two products which live side by side and both are being actively improved.

People assumed that because we made a new database we were killing the older one, but that was never true.

Re: Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My armchair thought: what if the CEO said "wow, Yegge is right, we've gotten really off trail here. you need to show leadership in maintaining a 3+ year old system at Google for promotions?" Could that happen and would it work?

Yes, but there might be other downsides... Suddenly every developer turns into 'maintenance man' just refactoring existing code to make it neater without adding much.

[deleted]

Re: Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, when someone expresses an opinion like this, you never know if they were contacted at some point by a Google recruiter and ended up with a case of sour grapes. I had a phone conversation with a hiring manager once, and obviously I was not the right type or class or caste or something, but it wasn't a technical screen at all, so it's a mystery to me forever what exactly determined the "in group" as…

Of course. I'm well aware that I'm considered mentally defective (or maybe just garden variety low IQ) by the hiring committee. That doesn't really change my observation here.

You pop up in every post about Google or Facebook and make the conversation about yourself, wallowing in self pity because you didn't land a job there straight out of college. This might sound harsh, but you need to get over it and move on.

Re: Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You

#99
post #66

> Let’s say hypothetically that Apple was dumb enough to pull a Guido van Rossum, and declare that Swift 6.0 is backwards-incompatible with Swift 5.0, much in the way that Python 3 is incompatible with Python 2. Damn, I was waiting for this. The whole essay was a setup for this paragraph. Reframes the argument using a shared traumatic experience for everyone. This humanizes the effect, we all know someone that lost s…

Apple already pulled the Python 3 stunt twice with swift. Swift 1 to Swift 2 to Swift 3 were all very much incompatible.

Of course the language wasn’t as broadly used back then and Apple is known for quicker churn than Python so the need to write code compatible across Swift versions was much less pronounced

Re: Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You

#100
post #78

I have personally used a large number of cloud compute services: AWS, packet, Alibaba, Digital Ocean, nimbix, Azure, Oracle, ... I still use all of these services from time to time. If you carefully look at my list of cloud vendors you realize that there is only one of the big cloud vendors missing: GCP. Why? When GCP came out I wanted to switch from AWS to GCP because AWS was costing me a lot of money and GCP was ma…

Let me guess, you're based somewhere in Europe? I don't remember the specifics, but the "business only in Europe" thing was 100% the fault of the EU's (tax?) laws. Not sure if that ever got resolved, actually.
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