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Netgpu and the hazards of proprietary kernel modules

lwn.net

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Re: Netgpu and the hazards of proprietary kernel modules

#71

Post by qubex »

beefee wrote: post #30
microcow wrote: post #23

It seems reasonable to reject the patch for technical and legal reasons, but it's pretty disappointing to see toxic comments from prominent kernel developers like: > "Seriously? If you only even considered this is something reasonable to do you should not be anywhere near Linux kernel development. Just go away!" https://lwn.net/ml/netdev/20200727073509.GB3917@lst.de/ https://lwn.net/ml/netdev/20200728064706.GA21377@l…

As a user and downstream developer, I'm glad that the Linux maintainers are committed to maintaining a sound architecture. The idea that they need to be more polite about rejecting low quality work is puzzling to me.

An “impolite no” is not just a ‘no’, and it’s the latter that was required and not the former. He could have ‘recommended’ that the whole patch-set be re-architected to avoid depending on the proprietary module. There was really no need (or any excuse really) for being so coarse.

Re: Netgpu and the hazards of proprietary kernel modules

#73

Post by zokula »

nix23 wrote: post #25
microcow wrote: post #23

It seems reasonable to reject the patch for technical and legal reasons, but it's pretty disappointing to see toxic comments from prominent kernel developers like: > "Seriously? If you only even considered this is something reasonable to do you should not be anywhere near Linux kernel development. Just go away!" https://lwn.net/ml/netdev/20200727073509.GB3917@lst.de/ https://lwn.net/ml/netdev/20200728064706.GA21377@l…

All in all Linux (the kernel) has a really toxic environment. If you like a more friendly community and still want to work on a Kernel go to Net/Freebsd, Haiku or OmniosCE. With Linux (the kernel) you are not allowed to make mistakes or ask (stupid?) questions.

Oh stop the bullshit and hyperbolic hand waving. The Linux kernel community is way more friendly place to work than any of the BSD kernel communities.

Re: Netgpu and the hazards of proprietary kernel modules

#74

Post by zokula »

non-entity wrote: post #26
nix23 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All in all Linux (the kernel) has a really toxic environment. If you like a more friendly community and still want to work on a Kernel go to Net/Freebsd, Haiku or OmniosCE. With Linux (the kernel) you are not allowed to make mistakes or ask (stupid?) questions.

Can confirm: Haiku, FreedBSD, NetBSD, and DrangonflyBSD kernel communities have been quite friendly and helpful.

FreeBSD and NetBSd are quite toxic places.

Re: Netgpu and the hazards of proprietary kernel modules

#75

Post by rini17 »

nix23 wrote: post #36
beefee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user and downstream developer, I'm glad that the Linux maintainers are committed to maintaining a sound architecture. The idea that they need to be more polite about rejecting low quality work is puzzling to me.

>need to be more polite about rejecting low quality work is puzzling to me. First, it's not low quality Second, for sure you have to be polite if you don't pay him (but even when you do, you should) Third, imagine a 16yo get smashed like that (not that i say he is) and what a devastating and demotivating thing that could be...welcome to the linux world Overall, those Superstar Linux dev's are mostly ignorant borderli…

You are right, it's not low quality, it's high quality attack on whole culture.

But please come up with real examples, did linux devs ever like "smashed 16yo"?

Also, why don't you set an example and express yourself politely too?

Re: Netgpu and the hazards of proprietary kernel modules

#76

Post by zokula »

jeffbee wrote: post #48
beefee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user and downstream developer, I'm glad that the Linux maintainers are committed to maintaining a sound architecture. The idea that they need to be more polite about rejecting low quality work is puzzling to me.

Imagine believing that Linux has a "sound architecture".

Imagine believing in it's not.

Re: Netgpu and the hazards of proprietary kernel modules

#77

Post by nix23 »

zokula wrote: post #74
non-entity wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm: Haiku, FreedBSD, NetBSD, and DrangonflyBSD kernel communities have been quite friendly and helpful.

FreeBSD and NetBSd are quite toxic places.

Proof...because it's bullshit.

EDIT: Ahh looking at you comment's you are a anti-bsd troll, so dont waste time searching for proof.

Re: Netgpu and the hazards of proprietary kernel modules

#78

Post by rini17 »

microcow wrote: post #65
Corazoor wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that these responses are rude, patches like this are the lkml equivalent of taking a dump in someones backyard... It might very well be that the submitter didn't know that, the documentation on what will be flat out rejected is not very explicit. But a compile-time dependency on a non-gpl module should be very self-evident, and the documentation explicitly asks people to go and learn about how the GPL w…

No! A flawed patch is not the equivalent of "taking a dump" in someone's yard. Proposing a flawed patch is not a contemptuous act, it's not insulting, and it is not injurious. Treating it as such is the problem. Telling someone they "should not be anywhere near Linux kernel development" and to "just go away" is degrading and contemptuous.

...and right thing to do in these circumstances.

Re: Netgpu and the hazards of proprietary kernel modules

#80

Post by temp43t453 »

microcow wrote: post #23

It seems reasonable to reject the patch for technical and legal reasons, but it's pretty disappointing to see toxic comments from prominent kernel developers like: > "Seriously? If you only even considered this is something reasonable to do you should not be anywhere near Linux kernel development. Just go away!" https://lwn.net/ml/netdev/20200727073509.GB3917@lst.de/ https://lwn.net/ml/netdev/20200728064706.GA21377@l…

ok, what you do when someone modifies the product you're using so you cant continue to use it the way you did before, and you cant fix it or alter it due to legal or community reasons? you move away to different product.

what the people who use/develop kernel would do when they become unable to modify large part of kernel code that is highly needed for their work?

business doesnt work like typical consumer, there is no "products" that they pick from the big market

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