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Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

inc.com

121–130 of 184 posts

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#121
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't typically put a salary on a CV.

I would probably have no problem putting "My salary kept getting raised because I kicked butt" on my resume. If they can get past the fact that I worked at a porn company, a little grandstanding probably won't hurt.

> If they can get past the fact that I worked at a porn company,

Employers that worry about this are rather silly. I'd hire a candidate even if he was starring in said porn productions.

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#122
post #28
post #22

"Besides being small, 37signals has always been a flat organization." .. "We've experimented with promoting a few people to manager-level roles." So they are flat, with no chief anything, but they have 'manager-level roles'? Am I missing something or is there a contradiction in his description? Edit: Got it, 'experimented' meaning that they tried, didn't work, and they went back to flat. Thanks for the responses. Bes…

Key word: Experimented? Past tense, too.

My cocktail title at 37signals is "Product Manager," so whatever experiments are going on with management aren't completely past tense. I do UI design, work with the programmers, help design and dev work together and contribute strategy ideas to the partners.

Despite the cocktail title, there still isn't a clear "path of authority" or anything like that. The buck stops at the partners, and the rest of us function like a meritocracy. The ones with a track record or expertise on a given topic have a respected voice, and there is always opportunity for expertise to shift or widen over time. It's that fuzzy-edged quality to the role that makes it feel experimental for me.

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#123

I would like to commend Jason Fried on establishing a source of free and recurring advertising in a massively distributed publication that has had his target audience cornered for years. Not only is this free advertising, but it is the highest quality of advertising congratulating small and medium size business on being flat (which they usually are because in a small army, even the Generals are on the front lines) an…

I'm the first one to be skeptical about the universal feasibility of 37signals bootstrapping principles (that's an easy philosophy to espouse when your product was bootstrapped by leveraging early success in client work and community mindshare in what was a nascent market at the time), but your dripping cynicism is quite offputting. The fact that Jason's ideals serve his interests is not necessarily an indication of of any machiavellian scheme. In fact if you think about it, this is a necessary byproduct of the marketing of ideas by anyone with integrity.

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#124
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that basically the Peter Principle?

It is the Dilbert Principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dilbert_principle "[C]ompanies tend to systematically promote their least-competent employees to management [...] in order to limit the amount of damage they are capable of doing."

Ah, whoops - that's the one, you're right.

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#125
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would probably have no problem putting "My salary kept getting raised because I kicked butt" on my resume. If they can get past the fact that I worked at a porn company, a little grandstanding probably won't hurt.

> If they can get past the fact that I worked at a porn company, Employers that worry about this are rather silly. I'd hire a candidate even if he was starring in said porn productions.

I'm kind of surprised at how most of my former co-workers will not put the common name of the company (which is not offensive or profane) on their resumes and put the legal name instead (the legal name is pretty generic-sounding). Some have even requested that I change the name on my LinkedIn profile or mark it as "I worked with so-and-so at different companies" so they won't be directly associated with it.

Maybe it's just a scarcity mentality thing; they're worried about turning off potential employers, but when you're constantly getting contacted by recruiters I guess it's hard to feel like it's a disadvantage.

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#126

"Even as we've grown, we've remained a lean organization. We do not have room for people who don't do the actual work." That is a priceless comment. It exposes Jason's huge blind spot. Worse, it is on this undefended flank that great future pain may be inflicted. I look forward to the post-learning article. The underlying premise/assumption is that a 'manager' is not only not doing 'the' work, but they aren't really…

Also, sometimes the cheese is Gouda. When the cheese is Gouda, it is the cheese of customer service, and the job of the person standing above the maze it to identify if there is Gouda and where it is. But sometimes the cheese is Emmenthaler, and when the cheese is Emmenthaler, then there is a rule† that the Gouda manager and the Emmenthaler manager must share the cheese or else by finding maze paths that don't connect directly to each other immediately but eventually do connect get more Gouda than Emmenthaler or vice versa, in which case they take all the cheese, and you can see now that this might possibly be the most least helpful analogy ever constructed to make a point on a message board ever.

I promise it is all love with me and this comment.

Without employing any additional analogies, I believe I can respond to your underlying point by suggesting that in a well-managed organization, one President or CEO can structure roles such that everyone is clear about the business value they provide and can manage their effort accordingly. This requires that you be careful about who you hire, what roles you create, and how you scale the company.

It does not however require that you not scale your company past 20 people.

That strategy, however, will not work in the (bad) kind of Silicon Valley startup that grows by buying Pasteurized Processed Product Managers. Your CS reps need to know what "service" means and how your specific customers perceive and value it. That can be hard to do. Thus, some companies probably do need management structures.

Though only in the US edition that Rio Grande publishes, not the original German game

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#127
post #82

I like the idea of keeping people closer to what they are good at. However I'm afraid this strategy will backfire on your employees if they are forced to leave to another company for whatever reason. In an environment where every company does not have this flat hierarchy it is strange to see a person who has spent 10 years in one place and has not advanced to some managerial position. New employer will think that he…

I'm the type of person who would work at 37signals. If I were to leave 37signals, any job that I would be applying to would have heard of 37signals and presumably my work there would speak for itself. If I got nixed because of detailed line-wise consideration of my CV I would take that as a sign that I was better off far away from that company.

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#129

"Even as we've grown, we've remained a lean organization. We do not have room for people who don't do the actual work." That is a priceless comment. It exposes Jason's huge blind spot. Worse, it is on this undefended flank that great future pain may be inflicted. I look forward to the post-learning article. The underlying premise/assumption is that a 'manager' is not only not doing 'the' work, but they aren't really…

Your comment presupposes that there aren't any proven models of self-management.

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#130
Why don't you just split into two little 37signalses when the time comes?

In all the proposals / solutions mentioned here for dealing with growth while maintaining a flat culture, this is one approach I haven't seen yet. It worked well for a Dutch consultancy firm called BSO, which reached over 6000 people in the 90's, all organised into near-independent little companies of 50-ish people each, all targeting a different market, but each with the same culture and values. The firm itself was a flat company of these little companies (called "cells"), so effectively there were just 2 to 3 layers of management.

(http://www.extent.nl/articles/entry/origins-original/ if you care about the details)

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