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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

stanforddaily.com

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#401

Post by alchemism »

Chathamization wrote: post #357
netcan wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

International relations is an actual subject area. It's true that we don't need that many diplomats, and that people might be just studying it out of interest... or because it sounded better than something else. Most business courses are literally fake. The stuff being taught was invented in order to be taught. Quite a lot of it is learning the meaning of terms that were invented in order to be taught. It's not that…

> International relations is an actual subject area. It's true that we don't need that many diplomats In my experience "International Relations" classes teach very little that's actually valuable. I think there's a common in mistake in thinking at because X is important, then university classes about X are useful. There are a lot of subjects that are important but where the study of it in academia (at least at the un…

When I dropped out of International Relations to go be an autodidact hacker in the dotcom boom, I noted that the degree program was basically a track to work at the State Department. The professors were highly enthusiastic about it as a profession. Granted this may have just been my school.

I didn’t find any of it relevant at the time. Fast forward 25 years and now that my IT work is distributed full-remote global operations, it turns out my IR foundation gives me a unique [perspective] and VERY influential position in an Engineering org.

So there is a certain long-term value in cross-training in this way.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#402

Post by kortilla »

netcan wrote: post #32
eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

Regardless of how much student interest there is in dark ages French literature, it doesn’t do them any good to prepare them for working or even interacting with modern society.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#403

Post by kortilla »

alchemism wrote: post #401
Chathamization wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> International relations is an actual subject area. It's true that we don't need that many diplomats In my experience "International Relations" classes teach very little that's actually valuable. I think there's a common in mistake in thinking at because X is important, then university classes about X are useful. There are a lot of subjects that are important but where the study of it in academia (at least at the un…

When I dropped out of International Relations to go be an autodidact hacker in the dotcom boom, I noted that the degree program was basically a track to work at the State Department. The professors were highly enthusiastic about it as a profession. Granted this may have just been my school. I didn’t find any of it relevant at the time. Fast forward 25 years and now that my IT work is distributed full-remote global op…

What value is it that you think you got from those classes and not 20 years of professional experience?

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#404

Post by janitor_monkey »

shard wrote: post #391
grecy wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries In what OECD countries do students go into crippling debt for their tertiary education? There are only two that I know of, one of which being the USA.

Well don't leave us hanging, what's the other one?

UK, probably

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#405

Post by DevKoala »

JamisonM wrote: post #299
beaner wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least, these tend to be real subjects that students are actually interested in. I don't think that whether real students are interested in a topic is related to how well that choice of study does for them in the real world. International relations, anthropology, women's studies, psychology, etc., are all real subjects that students are actually interested in. Some small fraction of the people who study them actu…

> "online marketing" degrees are just part of this category, not anything special in themselves. I disagree in that many of the other topics have a real academic history and tradition, involve the expression of genuinely important ideas. Being immersed in that for years has value: in the facts learned, the overall experience, and an appreciation for aspects of the world that you might not have understood or appreciat…

From your source, a NPV of ~$680k in accumulated earnings over 30 years is the average return. That is ~$22,600 earnings per year. I don't think that is a good return by any means.

Am I reading the chart correctly? If so, I don't see how your link favors your argument.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#406

Post by azernik »

kortilla wrote: post #403
alchemism wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I dropped out of International Relations to go be an autodidact hacker in the dotcom boom, I noted that the degree program was basically a track to work at the State Department. The professors were highly enthusiastic about it as a profession. Granted this may have just been my school. I didn’t find any of it relevant at the time. Fast forward 25 years and now that my IT work is distributed full-remote global op…

What value is it that you think you got from those classes and not 20 years of professional experience?

Having done some IR work in college while pursuing a mainly CS degree:

Even with decades of professional experience as a diplomat or analyst, your sample size of countries and international situations will be very small. Having both a theoretical understanding of the underlying dynamics, and a broad view of the whole problem space as it has been explored historically, is qualitatively different from the lessons you get on the job.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#407

Post by ketamine__ »

jachee wrote: post #399
mxcrossb wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just points to the absurdity of the whole situation. I mean in what world should bars be open and universities closed? It’s a complete failure of priorities.

You're right. The bars should be closed, too. We should be spending the entire defense budget on paying for people to stay home, stay safe, and to get them what they need; as well as funding as much scientific research as feasible to fight this clear and present danger to our lives and livelihoods.

In what world is a virus that is asymptomatic for 99.9% of the population a clear and present danger to our lives?

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#408

Post by ineedasername »

eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

You won't change the education issues in the US at the very top of the pyramid. The problems with US education begin at day 1 of kindergarten and the complete balkanization of curriculums both from state to state and often between different school districts in the same state.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#409

Post by cbsks »

ketamine__ wrote: post #407
jachee wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. The bars should be closed, too. We should be spending the entire defense budget on paying for people to stay home, stay safe, and to get them what they need; as well as funding as much scientific research as feasible to fight this clear and present danger to our lives and livelihoods.

In what world is a virus that is asymptomatic for 99.9% of the population a clear and present danger to our lives?

> asymptomatic for 99.9% of the population

Source? I didn’t think it was nearly that high.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#410

Post by ketamine__ »

mertd wrote: post #264
celnardur wrote: post #99

I feel like I can offer a unique perspective on this because I go to Notre Dame and we are just finishing the first week of classes with everyone back on campus. It's gone alright so far. All the cases so far have been traced back to off campus bars or parties. However, I expect it to get worse soon as cases start spreading on campus. If you want to see how Notre Dame is doing with cases and testing we have a dashboa…

How do you mean it is going alright? Almost 30 students tested positive last week.

Maybe they have mild symptoms?
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