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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#371

Post by vondur »

analog31 wrote: post #369
jimmar wrote: post #106

I'm a professor at a regional university. Not a big name school, but we have about 5,000 students. We would be bankrupt if we told students we'd only be offering classes online this fall because students, by an overwhelming majority, want the in-person experience. We know we would lose enrollment if we went fully online this fall, and the drop would be significant enough for the university to declare bankruptcy. Harv…

I have two kids attending college this fall, one at the state "flagship" school, and the other at a regional college. Both are dead certain, as are their friends, that college will last a couple weeks, then they'll send everybody home. It will happen just in time for nobody to be prepared for it. The kids are all signing up for online classes whenever possible. My dental hygienist, whom I spoke to this week, has a da…

Honestly, if I were graduating and attending college this year, I'd just skip this semester, and possibly the year. Online education isn't the same, and most universities are ill prepared to offer online instruction at the same level as in class instruction.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#372

Post by pgcj_poster »

beaner wrote: post #274
netcan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

> At least, these tend to be real subjects that students are actually interested in. I don't think that whether real students are interested in a topic is related to how well that choice of study does for them in the real world. International relations, anthropology, women's studies, psychology, etc., are all real subjects that students are actually interested in. Some small fraction of the people who study them actu…

I think it's useful for society to have a significant chunk of the population that knows a lot about social sciences or humanities, even if it doesn't translate directly to job skills. On a simple level, as a trans person, I would be really glad to know that my office manager majored in gender studies. On a more grand level, I think it would be good for US foreign policy if every voter had at least one friend who had studied international relations. Therefore, I don't see it as a social problem that we have a lot of people spending a few years of their lives studying those things, although I do think it's a problem that we charge them absurd amount to do it. By contrast, I don't think that whatever they teach in "online marketing" has any positive effect on society. It might even be negative. Those degrees I do see as a social problem.

I also agree that it's a problem that a lot of people are going into college just because they don't have any other ideas and it's seen as a respectable thing to do. I think the main cause is that our society doesn't give nearly enough support to people entering the workforce, and is oddly determined for people to move from being a full-time student to a full-time worker, with nothing in between.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#373

Post by 908B64B197 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #368
eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

Dunno if Americans have this but almost every degree at my university is “co-op” which means every other term is a paid full time job you have to seek out and get. And you have no summers. The result is that I graduated with two years of real work experience. It’s a total game changer. It blows my mind how people can graduate with a degree and have no guarantee of any work experience. No idea how you turn that into a…

I've heard of it at some more technical institutions (often not 4 years degrees), but I don't think anyone in the top ~100 in CS has considered the model.

It's not like it's hard for CS students to get internships in the summer...

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#374

Post by draw_down »

jnwatson wrote: post #100
tyingq wrote: post #9

My son's state university is forcing students to return in person. I fully expect a notable outbreak in some college to start a wave of media noise, followed by all the universities sending everyone back home again. Sucks because students are signing leases, moving crap, buying meal plans, etc, right now. Aside from the obvious safety issues.

"Forcing". There's no one forcing anybody to go to college. This would be a fine time to take a gap year.

Then next year you’re trying to matriculate with the current class plus all the people from your class that skipped a year.

I’m not saying people should go to school. I wouldn’t if I were this age. But it’s not exactly as simple as peacing out for a year and then coming back. It will be a huge mess.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#375

Post by doctor_eval »

chrisjarvis wrote: post #150
bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a lot of assumptions to be making. It's pretty irresponsible to say that someone is at no danger from coronavirus at this point.

if that person is 18-22 years old, given the data, how is it irresponsible?

A 20 year old died of cv this week here in Victoria. Everybody is at risk, it’s just that the curve “favours” older people.

You know, like professors, admin staff, mature students, parents and grandparents, ...

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#376

Post by mensetmanusman »

pgcj_poster wrote: post #372
beaner wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least, these tend to be real subjects that students are actually interested in. I don't think that whether real students are interested in a topic is related to how well that choice of study does for them in the real world. International relations, anthropology, women's studies, psychology, etc., are all real subjects that students are actually interested in. Some small fraction of the people who study them actu…

I think it's useful for society to have a significant chunk of the population that knows a lot about social sciences or humanities, even if it doesn't translate directly to job skills. On a simple level, as a trans person, I would be really glad to know that my office manager majored in gender studies. On a more grand level, I think it would be good for US foreign policy if every voter had at least one friend who had…

Online marketing teaches how to communicate value of something. Of course, some companies abuse the approach and lie, but the more people who can communicate ideas well, the better.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#377

Post by mensetmanusman »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #126
netcan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that any parent who outright rejects this logic is a moron too, probably moreso. The idea that "social desirability" does not reflect actually valuable stuff is foolish. Class exists in some form in every society. People are always hyper-aware of class issues, and it has always been a primary part of the college/career decision process.

In the US we pretend that class doesn’t exist here. We have risen above that, you see, anybody here can become anything they want. Much the same way we pretend that racism doesn’t exist.

France is much better at pretending race doesn’t exist

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#378

Post by mensetmanusman »

machinelabo wrote: post #308
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are completely re-examining the utility of taking out a student loan that many cannot pay back in their working lifetimes. Many? Only ~10% of student loans are in delinquency. 90% of borrowers are making payments. https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/topics/student-deb...

People don't grasp how good America has it for jobs. I have a friend in Australia who emigrated recently and struggling to even get an interview. This is a guy with intellect through the roof, ex-Microsoft, ex-Amazon software engineer and has trouble finding someone who can hire him. In my personal contact graph - every engineer I know who has graduated (even with C grades) has obtained a job and is happy with what t…

It’s counter intuitive, many don’t understand that jobs ‘protection’ results in fewer jobs.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#379

Post by mensetmanusman »

alasdair_ wrote: post #364
eric4smith wrote: post #12

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

>Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long run - even if only on the educational level. I'm a parent with children that are five, seven and nine. I don't think this at all. Basically what happens is that I'm able to afford to pay tutors and nannies and therapists to help with schooling during the day, but most parents are not. This means my kids have a massive advantage that…

Thank you for post. Sorry for the struggle. The hope is that this is temporary, studies have shown that missing a year of education dissipates into noise after 10 years.

Although, that was during a time when that 1 year wasn’t just full of netflix (hopefully this is only very rare, and that most parents aren’t just having the young watch TV all day).

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#380

Post by mensetmanusman »

roywiggins wrote: post #242
breck wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it may work because there’s close to zero chance of dying for college students, and we have far more immune people now than we did back in the spring. Sweden’s numbers are looking very interesting right now.

Not all college students are 20-30, and not all 20-30 year olds have fully functioning immune systems.

He never said they were...
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