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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

stanforddaily.com

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#361
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least, these tend to be real subjects that students are actually interested in. I don't think that whether real students are interested in a topic is related to how well that choice of study does for them in the real world. International relations, anthropology, women's studies, psychology, etc., are all real subjects that students are actually interested in. Some small fraction of the people who study them actu…

STEM includes hard science and mathematics - is there that much more demand for math or biology majors than for any of the social sciences? A math undergrad seems just as likely to end up in a call centre or as an office manager

(context: was a math undergrad)

Almost all math graduates at my undergrad ended up going into (a) finance as quants, (b) PhD program, (c) data or SWE-related job in tech [me], or (d) some kind of K-12 math educator job.

Probably 30% PhD, 30% SWE/data in tech, 20% quant, 20% K-12 education. The people who did K-12 wanted to do that for much of their life typically, and the people who did PhD either (50%) knew that's exactly what they wanted to or, or really didn't know what they wanted to do.

Perhaps our program doesn't reflect the story on a national level though. Unsure there.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#362
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so-called useless degrees. Yea no more pesky English majors and philosophy students who bring up all sorts of annoying questions about the power structures that create our society. Can't we just stop thinking about stuff and get back to work! I'm also hoping that CS will be transformed into something more useful, thinking about complexity theory is a waste of time (outside of helping us make good white boarding que…

I just want to do a double check: Is this satire?

The author keeps us guessing :) but would surely add that reading Shakespeare is low ROI.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#363
post #56
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

The sheer number of people triggered by this comment shows just how immersed in class politics tech geeks are. It's a sad thing. Is it really so controversial that 18 year olds sometimes (not all the time) make poor financial decisions?

Your experience is true for some and false for others. That's the nature of anecdotes. I moved off campus to save a couple bucks and be "independent" and "spartan" but I missed out on a lot of stuff. I could have been closer to extracurriculars, I could have joined a frat. I get that not everyone has the resources for this stuff, but many do, and we're missing out on something if they can't experience it.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#364

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

>Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long run - even if only on the educational level.

I'm a parent with children that are five, seven and nine.

I don't think this at all. Basically what happens is that I'm able to afford to pay tutors and nannies and therapists to help with schooling during the day, but most parents are not. This means my kids have a massive advantage that may never be caught up.

Things would be much worse if my children were in their final two years of high school, where college applications are going to be based on "performance" which basically means "did my parents have enough money to continue giving me a decent education when the state failed to do so".

At the same time, I'm also aware of what is happening from the other side of things. One of my children has fairly severe autism and is supposed to have a full-time para-educator assigned to them to help him cope with school. I say "supposed" because it's not happened yet (since late February/ early March) and looks very unlikely to happen for the school year coming in September, no matter how many people I harrass. I also want to add that they have an IEP that is legally binding, and failing to provide services is literally illegal, yet nothing has been done to help with this.

In my case, I (again, insane privilege levels here) can cause enough problems with lawyers and talking to school board members directly that my own son will hopefully be okay but I really worry about any child that has special needs right now and is being ignored or underserved because no one seems to make them a priority.

It's honestly heartbreaking. My son still sets his alarm clock every single day to get up for a school that doesn't exist. He doesn't understand why all of his teachers just stopped teaching him one day and he asks all the time when he will be able to go back.

Just imagine a seven year old autistic kid setting his own alarm and trying to make tomorrow be like the days he remembers. He doesn't understand that things have changed. He completely lost not just his teacher and support staff, but his private therapists and everyone else that he relied upon and that spent years convincing him they would be there to help him and that he should trust them.

The district expects him to be on a computer watching live instruction for 5.5 hours every day. He is seven. He can't manage twenty minutes. He needs someone full-time every day to help him stay on track and yet nothing has been provided and I strongly doubt anything will.

Again, I have backup plans involving hiring someone full-time to teach him. We are insanely, ridiculously lucky to be able to do this. My concern is for all of the other kids who don't have parents that can spend tens of thousands of dollars on teachers and lawyers to fight for their own children. It's so, so wrong that these children, the most vulnerable of all, are being so neglected by the system.

Fuck. That was a rant. My inclination is to delete everything I said here but I think it's important. This virus (and more importantly, the utterly inept, almost criminal lack of response and leadership) is causing enormous, potentially-permanent damage to many, many students, and the only kids that are going to improve are those with parents with plenty of money to shield them.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#365
post #360
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it can and does. And I also know there are military white supremacists groups too and that these groups like to recruit in military. But racism was not my point. Military has actual big price in people who join it. Veterans do have issues to adjust back to civilian society. Which is basically euphemism for whole host of serious issues. Military families divorce often and their famillies do have actual issue…

I can understand that, my dad was in the military and I experienced some of those realities first hand, but it was before I was born and he has never really talked to me about his experience outside of teeny tiny "fun" bites. But, I'm really curious about white supremacist groups in the military. Is it a separate hierarchy? Is it wide spread? Do they recruit from within the military or get people to join with the int…

It’s been a known issue for a while. Both recruiting and advocating joining to help bolster military skills within the organizations.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02...

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of immunocompromised and obese students and a lot of senior professors and staff.

but is that reason good enough to take away everyone's right to go to college? here is where personal responsibility comes into play. If you are concerned stay home. The university and laws should support you. But the solution is not to punish everyone else, that won't work long term. The sooner people realize that the better. Limiting and collectively taking away people's rights will cause far more trouble long term…

Yes, it's a good enough reason when 1% of the population dies and a substantial population has extended long-term symptoms.

No, it's not being personally responsible. It's collective responsibility.

Personal responsibility in a pandemic is fallacy and idiocy.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#367
post #240
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I think many of the people who weren’t well off only afforded this experience by taking on debt. Besides, there’s more ways than just college to have that “real” growth experience. Military, mission work, peace corps. Hell, I’d even argue these are more of an experience because they aren’t built on the somewhat artificial backdrop of universities that can insulate you from the “real” world without all the…

Military will insulate you quite a lot from everything not military.

It can but it can also expose you to a lot of different cultures and experiences outside your comfort zones. Like anything else, it’s somewhat incumbent on the individual to engage those experiences.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#368

I firmly think there is a sea change going on from standard “college” degrees to more practical training that will be a mix of apprenticeship and solid training like air/vac, electricians and online skills, since the vast majority of jobs don’t really need a college degree. This has actually begun already at the high school level. Once again I believe net/net the beer virus will be positive for America in the long ru…

Dunno if Americans have this but almost every degree at my university is “co-op” which means every other term is a paid full time job you have to seek out and get. And you have no summers. The result is that I graduated with two years of real work experience.

It’s a total game changer. It blows my mind how people can graduate with a degree and have no guarantee of any work experience. No idea how you turn that into a career.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#369
post #106

I'm a professor at a regional university. Not a big name school, but we have about 5,000 students. We would be bankrupt if we told students we'd only be offering classes online this fall because students, by an overwhelming majority, want the in-person experience. We know we would lose enrollment if we went fully online this fall, and the drop would be significant enough for the university to declare bankruptcy. Harv…

I have two kids attending college this fall, one at the state "flagship" school, and the other at a regional college. Both are dead certain, as are their friends, that college will last a couple weeks, then they'll send everybody home. It will happen just in time for nobody to be prepared for it. The kids are all signing up for online classes whenever possible.

My dental hygienist, whom I spoke to this week, has a daughter at one of the community colleges, in a transfer program where she does 2 years at the CoCo and then gets admitted to one of the state colleges to finish her degree. All of her classes are online. She's delighted with it. She takes classes at home while also caring for her little sister, while Mom works.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#370
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would consider all of those “trades.” Well good luck communicating with other people because is not how anyone else anywhere uses the word ‘trade’. They’re not ‘trades’ they’re ‘professions’. And I would guess you already know this and you’re trying to be contrary rather than you’re genuinely misunderstanding a basic word.

Computer software development has none of the characteristics of a profession, either. There's no licensure, no guild, no liability, and many people practice it without formal training. The software industry would benefit from moving in the direction of being either a "trade" without the manual labor, or toward being a real profession, but it currently occupies a weird middle ground.

That makes recruiting a very fun game.

I wouldn't believe the stories on candidates failing FizzBuzz until I saw it with my own eyes, several times!

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