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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#341

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

bgorman wrote: post #281
jimmar wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that universities should do more to control costs. I'll push back just a bit that trimming all "fat" would make universities better. Where I am, the "fat" proposed for trimming is support for study abroad, music education, research conferences, and other things that enrich the lives of students and (hopefully) benefit society as a whole.

My Alma matter, also a regional university charges 47k a year in tuition. Assuming I take 12 classes a year and my classes average 15 students each, that puts the cost of providing a single class at $58,750. What the heck is going on for universities to have such an insane cost structure.

$250,000 per year administrators, $30 million dollar buildings and "lazy rivers". If we had a statistic for what percentage of your buildings were for academic usage, you'd find the amount is low.

"Paying for the Party" is a neat book here based on real life information from colleges.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#342

Post by [deleted] »

timr wrote: post #327
justin66 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The comment was that the students are at risk. Someone shows you that they're not at risk, and you pivot to danger to "townsfolk". Assuming they're not stupid, evil, or politically conservative, the students are probably concerned about the risk of spreading the illness and the attendant harm that could cause, as well as what it could do to themselves.

That's fine. Those students are more than welcome to make choices for themselves. We don't need let them decide for everyone.

[deleted]

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#343

Post by watwut »

werber wrote: post #333
watwut wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military will insulate you quite a lot from everything not military.

I have no military experience. But I've talked to people who have claimed that the experience erases racially biased tendencies in a lot of people through exposure and a familial bond with people from different backgrounds. It's anecdotal, but I sincerely hope that is the case

I believe it can and does. And I also know there are military white supremacists groups too and that these groups like to recruit in military. But racism was not my point.

Military has actual big price in people who join it. Veterans do have issues to adjust back to civilian society. Which is basically euphemism for whole host of serious issues. Military families divorce often and their famillies do have actual issues due to frequent moving or partner long term away. Domestic violence rates are high.

The whole growth experience is leaving quite a few people in difficult situations after.

And it rubs me wrong when it is framed as "less insulated the 'real' world. It is as insulated as it gets. Or as "real life" or "real growth" as opposed to "not real life" in quite common experience of either college or job or having familly that functions in more normal way.

It is called sacrifice for a reason.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#344

Post by hooande »

LargeWu wrote: post #56
netcan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

"It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed."

This is also a description of summer camp.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#345

Post by take_a_breath »

derision wrote: post #249
garmaine wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things are viewed differently on the coasts, where those roles are very much lower class, even though they pay well.

Which political party runs the coastal cities? I'll give you a hint, it's the same party that calls the rest of America "fly over states"

The same political party that runs the inland cities? I’m not sure “fly over states” is a phrase you can blame on Democrats, seems like a stretch.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#346

Post by Gwypaas »

weehoo wrote: post #336
Gwypaas wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel this is the consequence of the American style no responsibilities system. Why on earth should an 18 year old high school senior need a hall-pass to go to the restroom? Signed a Swede who spent an exchange year in Texan upper middle class suburban public high school.

When I tell people that Finnish middle schools don’t have bells and the kids just go places when they need to they look at me in disbelief. Kids live up to the expectations they are given. The patronizing nature of the American education system is one of the reasons why people here have such a hard time taking personal responsibility for things in my opinion.

Same in Sweden, essentially starting in second grade for me.

Thinking back on it I now see how thought out it was. The clock facing the school yard which everything depended on. In second and third grade every time it was PE, shop class or something requiring a different place than the homeroom it was scheduled so the teacher would bring the class if necessary, later just letting us go. Fourth and fifth it could be right after a break trusting us to get there on our own.

Then starting sixth grade we were essentially on our own. The first class started anywhere between from 8 to 10 in the assigned room. During breaks we could go anywhere, the only limit being to get back in time. Sometimes having gaps in the schedule leading to some time to kill. Often going the public library, or playing something, or hanging out in the school building or buying coke and mentos because kids....

Then choosing high school and field of study based on interests all over town getting there using public transportation, which every student that had to travel longer than a couple of kilometers is given a pass for which is valid during school hours.

Also getting the government stipend of ~$100 every month having to learn manage your own money.

Wow, this was a trip down memory lane.

One thing I vividly remember is feeling like a child again when starting American high school. A contrasting memory which stands out is during lunch getting in a friend's truck sneaking out to buy fast food for lunch and "stealthily" avoiding the parking lot monitors to not get into trouble. Wtf.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#347

Post by bumby »

kelnos wrote: post #295
watwut wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military will insulate you quite a lot from everything not military.

... and depending on what you're forced to do "for your country", it might mess you up psychologically. And at least in the US, we sadly don't take very good care of our veterans.

I wasn’t implying some sort of mandatory military service, just that there are other avenues to personal growth. I personally don’t think advocating a rite of passage potentially built upon lifelong debt is prudent

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#348

Post by bumby »

watwut wrote: post #343
werber wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no military experience. But I've talked to people who have claimed that the experience erases racially biased tendencies in a lot of people through exposure and a familial bond with people from different backgrounds. It's anecdotal, but I sincerely hope that is the case

I believe it can and does. And I also know there are military white supremacists groups too and that these groups like to recruit in military. But racism was not my point. Military has actual big price in people who join it. Veterans do have issues to adjust back to civilian society. Which is basically euphemism for whole host of serious issues. Military families divorce often and their famillies do have actual issue…

>The whole growth experience is leaving quite a few people in difficult situations after.

This is true. It’s not a cakewalk for everybody. But the dichotomy of some of those difficult situations is they can both foster growth and simultaneously stress is an individual. I think some would say that stress/sacrifice is a necessary precursor for that growth. Unfortunately, sometimes the stress exceeds the individuals coping mechanisms.

The book Tribe gives an interesting perspective on military service. The author wrote it after his personal growth (and stress) from creating the documentary Restrepo about the outpost of the same name in Afghanistan.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#349

Post by eulenteufel »

beaner wrote: post #274
netcan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

> At least, these tend to be real subjects that students are actually interested in. I don't think that whether real students are interested in a topic is related to how well that choice of study does for them in the real world. International relations, anthropology, women's studies, psychology, etc., are all real subjects that students are actually interested in. Some small fraction of the people who study them actu…

I am currently a physics student (in Germany) and have to tell you that people "throwing away their studies" is not something STEM-students are exempt from. In fact most physics students (at least in Germany) will go on and do something totally unrelated very soon after graduating. We graduate a lot more people than what are actually used in science and physics related industries. Of course some fraction of the aquired skills may also be useful in other jobs, but that applies to a lot of studies in the humanities as well.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#350

Post by epmaybe »

neltnerb wrote: post #16
epmaybe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absurd here in my state as well. We have peak number of cases in one of the biggest college towns, and students are moving in as we speak. I give it two or three weeks before we cancel everything again. As an aside, equally scummy are universities that pulled the rug from under students very close to move in. My sister got kicked out of her housing by the university a few days before move in, and basically had t…

I hate to be all like "to be fair" but wouldn't it have been even worse if they'd waited until after she moved there and then sent her home and made her move twice instead of canceling a move once? Do you mean they're still having in-person classes required but are just not offering housing? That's definitely scummy, that's the kind of thing that would have changed people's admission acceptance decisions.

Some in person classes, yes. My sister luckily only has online ones. Regarding when, I think the obvious answer should have been to cancel in person classes back in may or June.. We knew covid was here to last even then.
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