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German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

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Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#111

Post by 3327 »

woco26 wrote: post #4

I'm there. Management sent an email to all employees a week after the process was initiated about how the works council was against all their values, and they have an amazing idea for modern employee representation - one they only hired an external lawyer to present after the employees asked for a works council. Only a couple days ago, after having the invite in their hands for 10 days did they start complaining abou…

Fire these pawns that don’t amount to a bishop or knight.

Workers council if not permitted is against company policy.

If they don’t have faith in management they can leave.

Ridiculous.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#112

Post by triceratops »

moooo99 wrote: post #59
lumberjack wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American salary: .... Dutch salary: .... American job market: .... Dutch or (even EU) job market: .... They are not comparable. In the Netherlands and Germany it feels like the only employees who make good money are management. Engineers are never going to be rich from working as engineers. The only way to make it is to break into management, and the odds are against you.

Yes, these are very different job markets, and totally different markets in general with a very different cost of living. If you want to compare the job markets, you'd also have to take that into consideration. The main reason why software engineers in the US make more on average are the FAANG companies and VC backed startups that pay insane salaries for their employees, primarily in the Bay Area with extremely high…

Entry-level FAANG engineers make significantly more than $120k in the Bay Area. Other than vacation time and job security, their lifestyle is comparable to any salaried person in Germany, and they save a lot more money.

There are a lot of reasons to live and work in Germany, but money is not one of them.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#113

Post by jermier »

TheCapeGreek wrote: post #96

Seems like a good thread to ask then: What other digital bank options are there that are primarily EU based? N26 was the only one I found. I keep seeing things like Monzo, Monese, Revolut but they're all UK based. Don't think they'd be too impacted by Brexit but nevertheless I'm looking for an EU-first solution.

All the so called 'neo banks' are still in their infancy which is good reason to avoid them at all costs. I'm waiting until these startups mature (and they are startups).

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#115

Post by ahgh »

arrrg wrote: post #12
arianvanp wrote: post #3

At least here in NL the Works Council is mandatory _By law_ if you have more than 50 employees. I suppose the laws in Germany are similar. and I also suppose N26 has more than 50 employeees ;) A healthy organization should have one, in my opinion. Management being against it is an unhealthy sign. Just so you have some context. a Works Council has the following rights: Right to discuss: they will have a bi-yearly meet…

Worker Councils seem to have broadly similar but slightly different rights and responsibilities in Germany. They are never mandatory, however employees do have the right to form one if there are at least five employees who are eligible to vote (18+) and if at least three of those can be elected (>6 months with the company, broadly speaking no one in an important management role). At least three employees have to take…

I am one of the persons who initiated the process to form a works council at my company recently. It was really scary and stressful but totally worth it in the end. I encourage you to talk to unions and other people who have experience with this, as well as to other people within the company who may be interested. Management will most likely be reluctant to hostile in the beginning but if they are not complete morons there are ways to do it without burning bridges and sacrificing your job or career. It takes time so the earlier you get that ball rolling the better.

Happy to chat privately: lhj6btl5pmwk1cn@jetable.org

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#116

Post by samjmck »

aviraldg wrote: post #114

Any recommendations for digital banks that aren't terrible to their employees? The biggest/best ones I know of are N26 and Revolut and both are kinda similar in this context.

Despite the fact that they have laid off 120 of their staff, Monzo seems pretty good. The people that got laid off seemed to only say good things about working their on Twitter, and most of the developers I follow that work there seem passionate about what they do.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#117

Post by triceratops »

yawboakye wrote: post #49
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #2

If a startup refuses a worker’s council this way and someone already tries to establish it, that’s a good sign to look for employment somewhere else.

I'd argue that a startup, by its very definition, should be allowed free rein and not be subjected to the same laws that apply to the BMWs and Mercedes Benz-es of Germany (and Europe) at large. The benefits of working at a startup are enormous (owing to the opportunity to win equity/shares). It's only fair that there's an equally sized risk to go with it.

> The benefits of working at a startup are enormous

Not really. I joined a 200-300 person startup that had a successful exit. On average, I made the same annually as I would have at one of the bigcos. With extra risk.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#118

Post by disabled »

baud147258 wrote: post #45
coldtea wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once you give an employee a permanent contract, you cannot fire them except for a set of reasons defined by law. Americans be like: "Shock! Awe! How would anyone ever hire an employee under such a requirement?!" (Meanwhile Netherlands unemployed rate is ~ 4.3%, and the US one at ~10 - and the latter with lots of under-reporting, e.g. people giving up looking for a job, and so on).

Well, in France similar laws exists and the unemployed rate is at 7% (but is likely below the actual rate, as you have to be actively looking for a job to be counted as unemployed)

> Well, in France similar laws exists and the unemployed rate is at 7% (but is likely below the actual rate, as you have to be actively looking for a job to be counted as unemployed)

This is effectively how the unemployment rate is counted in the US too: you have to be actively looking for a job (be a jobseeker) to be counted in the unemployment rate.

There are millions of people who are no longer jobseekers for whatever reason. Most often it is due to becoming more and more demoralized/demotivated (Americans statistically, adjusted for population, have this problem by far the worst of the entire developed world), having a legal record that makes a person virtually unemployable (we lock up our citizens at a higher rate than anyone else in the world), people having to be full-time caretakers for a family member (due to a lack of proper and adequately funded social insurance), disabled people trying to get benefits for several years—and often failing (Of the developed world, only in South Korea is it harder to claim disability benefits: this really says a lot because the perception around disability in Asia, but especially Southeast Asia is deplorable).

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#119

Post by mpweiher »

3327 wrote: post #111
woco26 wrote: post #4

I'm there. Management sent an email to all employees a week after the process was initiated about how the works council was against all their values, and they have an amazing idea for modern employee representation - one they only hired an external lawyer to present after the employees asked for a works council. Only a couple days ago, after having the invite in their hands for 10 days did they start complaining abou…

Fire these pawns that don’t amount to a bishop or knight. Workers council if not permitted is against company policy. If they don’t have faith in management they can leave. Ridiculous.

You seem to be unfamiliar with German law:

Company policy, if it does not permit a workers council, is illegal, and void. And no company in Germany would so brazen and stupid to make such a policy official.

Any attempt to interfere with the formation or operation of a workers council is illegal.

Any attempt to sanction employees for working in or attempting to form a workers council is illegal, never mind firing them.

In fact, the company has to support a workers council.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#120

Post by jen20 »

jermier wrote: post #113
TheCapeGreek wrote: post #96

Seems like a good thread to ask then: What other digital bank options are there that are primarily EU based? N26 was the only one I found. I keep seeing things like Monzo, Monese, Revolut but they're all UK based. Don't think they'd be too impacted by Brexit but nevertheless I'm looking for an EU-first solution.

All the so called 'neo banks' are still in their infancy which is good reason to avoid them at all costs. I'm waiting until these startups mature (and they are startups).

In the UK, anyone with the banking license Monzo has is protected by the insurance mandate which was put in place after the collapse of Northern Rock. The service from Monzo is substantially better than any other British bank, so it's a risk I'm willing to take.
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