Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews • Hacker News Board

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#51

Post by hotlikearobot » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 5:52 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #45

hotlikearobot wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, "bombing" review sites is entirely a market action. The market works through information. The most common way that information is disseminated is through prices, but that doesn't mean it is the only way. Reviews, etc, allow one to more accurately decide how to value something.

You're playing games with the definition of a "review". People looking for book reviews are in virtually all cases looking for information about the content of the book. I can't win the nerd argument with you that there is no information whatsoever in the review bombs, so I won't bother; I'll just rest my case that the information is below the noise threshold, and adds so much extra noise as to make the reviews usele…

You can also view it as a protest of a company's practice. People protest in front of brick-and-mortar establishments all the time to make consumers aware of things which may affect their decisions. I wouldn't call that "holding stores hostage."

If a review has zero information, then I agree with you that it is absolutely worthless and should be removed. However, if a review clearly states why it is scored the way it is, then it doesn't matter if it is purely about the content of a book or not. I have seen plenty of reviews which indicated shoddy binding... would you say these are worthless as well?

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#52

Post by dkl » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 5:56 PM UTC

I recently emailed Amazon customer service and complained about this very thing. A couple of days ago I bought dead tree versions of books that were 20% more for the kindle. I will not buy a kindle version of a book that is more than the dead tree version. Period.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#53

Post by pasbesoin » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 6:09 PM UTC

A review's a review. Including the product price as compared to perceived value.

It seems the sellers want to have their cake and eat it, too. You sell an e-Book for more than the hardcover -- be prepared for people to lower the value they assign to the product that you are selling at your price.

Otherwise, just relabel your review section to "Whore for us".

(A bit strong, admittedly, but this is starting to stink of hypocrisy. Pooor Amazon! /sarcasm)

EDIT:

At the same time, people should learn that the physical costs of a physical book are actually a fairly small component of it's overall cost. IIRC, often a dollar or two (US). Amazon et al. discounts on physical books often represent in good part the lack of retail overhead.

If you want bookstores, you need to patronize them. And decide that you find enough value to pay the additional expense that keeps them in business.

When a staff member helps you, directly or by stocking/shelving an item you otherwise would not have found, realize this and make a decision to "pay the freight".

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#54

Post by khafra » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 6:09 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #24

joshfinnie wrote: post #4

What I find funny is that this would have never happened if they charged the standard $9.99 e-book price (which in itself is absolutely too much for e-books). The $5 difference is causing quite a stir which I am sure is not worth it in the long run.

If $9.99 is too much for an ebook, then publishers will not survive selling ebooks at $9.99. If the market clears at $9.99, then $9.99 is by definition not too much for an ebook. If you don't believe this, absent a conspiracy theory about publishing†, you don't believe in markets. † For instance, that it's impossible to publish without a publisher, which seems objectively false in 2011 .

How can you tell if the market clears, with ebooks?

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#55

Post by tptacek » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 6:27 PM UTC

khafra wrote: post #54

tptacek wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If $9.99 is too much for an ebook, then publishers will not survive selling ebooks at $9.99. If the market clears at $9.99, then $9.99 is by definition not too much for an ebook. If you don't believe this, absent a conspiracy theory about publishing†, you don't believe in markets. † For instance, that it's impossible to publish without a publisher, which seems objectively false in 2011 .

How can you tell if the market clears, with ebooks?

If books sell!

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#56

Post by awj » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 6:36 PM UTC

ori_b wrote: post #13

ig1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is $10 too much for an ebook ? - surely it depends on the value of the content inside it. Valuing a book by it's physical properties is a practice that's gone on for far too long. Lots of technical books are full of "padding" and duplication because no-one will buy a 50 page book which concisely provides the useful information for $10-$20. It waste a huge amount of time both of the author and the readers.

I would gladly pay more for a thinner, more concise book.

I have come to use the term "frighteningly thing" to describe most of the math and comp sci textbooks I decided were worth keeping. They are tiny, polished, beautiful gems rather than a ton and a half of rock studded with some promising crystals.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#57

Post by riffraff » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 6:38 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #21

Sadly, Apple is largely to blame for this mess. Well, if you ignore the publishers. Ebooks started as a wholesale pricing model. The publishers would sell them to the likes of Amazon at some fixed price. Amazon would then set their own price. This is very similar to the brick-and-mortar pricing model. In some cases Amazon would sell those books at a loss in an effort to grow the Kindle platform. Publishers didn't lik…

> And that is the agency model, which allows the publishers to set the price, a move I argue is anticompetitive.

would you care to expand on this? I am not sure I understand what you mean by this, nor why.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#58

Post by awj » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 6:39 PM UTC

ig1 wrote: post #10

joshfinnie wrote: post #4

What I find funny is that this would have never happened if they charged the standard $9.99 e-book price (which in itself is absolutely too much for e-books). The $5 difference is causing quite a stir which I am sure is not worth it in the long run.

Why is $10 too much for an ebook ? - surely it depends on the value of the content inside it. Valuing a book by it's physical properties is a practice that's gone on for far too long. Lots of technical books are full of "padding" and duplication because no-one will buy a 50 page book which concisely provides the useful information for $10-$20. It waste a huge amount of time both of the author and the readers.

> surely it depends on the value of the content inside it.

It doesn't when an ebook is priced higher than paper editions with the same content. I do agree on the padding, though.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#59

Post by kbutler » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 6:44 PM UTC

originalgeek wrote: post #38

cletus wrote: post #21

Sadly, Apple is largely to blame for this mess. Well, if you ignore the publishers. Ebooks started as a wholesale pricing model. The publishers would sell them to the likes of Amazon at some fixed price. Amazon would then set their own price. This is very similar to the brick-and-mortar pricing model. In some cases Amazon would sell those books at a loss in an effort to grow the Kindle platform. Publishers didn't lik…

I characterize the view that this is "largely Apple's fault" to be somewhat myopic. Apple responded to a condition in the market, namely, publishers were plenty upset that Amazon used their position as the only viable ebook venue at the time to handcuff publishers to a $9.99 price point.

Amazon had the market power to force a $9.99 price point in spite of publishers' preferences. Apple lacked that power and followed publishers' preferences. This entrance of Apple as a competitor reduced Amazon's market power, allowing the publishers to dictate pricing.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#60

Post by jswinghammer » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 6:54 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #48

jswinghammer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too much is of course a subjective term. The problem with ebooks is that once the book is written they lack scarcity which makes them fairly different from most consumer products. A market clearing price is sort of weird in this instance since we know that the supply can expand to meet infinite consumer demand. If the parent poster is correct then we'll see a price correction towards a lower price. We'll also see a m…

There is no natural law of scarcity which suppliers are required to honor. They can produce as much or as little of a good as they want. The producer controls scarcity of their offering. The market responds by identifying substitutes , not by coercing the producer into relaxing scarcity. If your logic held, every paper book would cost the same amount; _The Very Hungry Caterpiller_ would cost within pennies of the sam…

Scarcity is a key component of prices in that it affects the supply of a given good at a given price. Paper, ink, production time, human labor, etc. are all goods that have limited supply so they must be allocated accordingly.

If you're a parent you know that the Very Hungry Caterpiller uses different paper and different production techniques (holes in the pages, thicker paper) which while raising the cost is offset by the demand for it being much greater than TAOCP. TAOCP costs more due to a smaller demand and the fact that substitutes don't really exist. VHC has tons of substitutes.

I mean to say that ebooks' lack of scarcity seems to trigger consumer expectations about pricing and what they are willing to pay. This has implications for the demand curve. I wouldn't suggest that the ebooks should all cost the same but that their cost to produce additional units is zero. If a paperback book experiences a massive spike in demand that's protracted and extreme the costs of books to consumers would rise or a shortage would develop. There is no chance of an ebook shortage apart from amazon.com going down.