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I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

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Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#51

Post by nightski »

gambler wrote: post #6

>Are you willing to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year to keep MDN afloat? Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. >Create an independent entity like Fronteers, but then international, get members to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year, and use that money to fund MDN or its s…

I'd donate it (or hell even double that) and honestly I don't care what it goes towards as long as MDN stays afloat and/or the future of Firefox is guaranteed.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#53

Post by jmull »

gambler wrote: post #6

>Are you willing to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year to keep MDN afloat? Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. >Create an independent entity like Fronteers, but then international, get members to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year, and use that money to fund MDN or its s…

> Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups.

In other words, “No.”

Not that it’s good that Mozilla spends money on that stuff. But for $50-$100/year you want not just a web reference, but significant control over the company that produces it. That’s just not going to happen, so you might as well just say, “No.”

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#54

Post by Santosh83 »

The wider community taking over maintaining MDN ought to be at least more feasible compared to say forking Firefox and keeping up with Chrome, which is a non-starter.

I don't think we can rely on Google or Microsoft caring for MDN in the future. They may do so for a while, but will inevitably let it languish or turn it into something that heavily promotes their own visions.

At the very least given the high traffic it ought to be getting, the current maintainers can try monetising it with non-invasive and contextual ads.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#55

Post by CarelessExpert »

avasthe wrote: post #45
CarelessExpert wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. Interestingly, this same sentiment is a huge part of why charitable giving runs into problems. A lot of people are willing to give, so long as they get to decide what is done with their funds. Of course, these same people have no i…

It need not take such high salaried non-technical CEO, degenerate activism or doomed web startups to run something like Mozilla.

No offense intended, but this isn't the way to have a meaningful conversation.

First, it's stated as a blind truth with no reasoning. The only thing I can do is say "you're wrong", as there's no basis upon which to have a real discussion.

Second, your repeated use of the phrase "degenerate activism" seems to have no other purpose than to elicit a strong emotional response. From my position it's borderline trolling.

Third, I have no idea what "doomed web startups" you're even talking about.

The entire comment, as short as it is, reads as bait for an argument, rather than an honest attempt to engage in a discussion.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#56

Post by Frondo »

gambler wrote: post #6

>Are you willing to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year to keep MDN afloat? Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. >Create an independent entity like Fronteers, but then international, get members to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year, and use that money to fund MDN or its s…

Degenerate activism?

Come on.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#57

Post by dmurray »

CarelessExpert wrote: post #35
gambler wrote: post #6

>Are you willing to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year to keep MDN afloat? Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. >Create an independent entity like Fronteers, but then international, get members to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year, and use that money to fund MDN or its s…

> Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. Interestingly, this same sentiment is a huge part of why charitable giving runs into problems. A lot of people are willing to give, so long as they get to decide what is done with their funds. Of course, these same people have no i…

> It's one of the reasons why, when I donate to a charity, I never specify how I want those funds to be used; I recognize that the charity is in a far better position to make that decision than I am.

But by choosing a charity, you make that decision. If you donate to MSF you expect your money to be used differently than if you donated to Mozilla or the ASPCA or the Ayn Rand foundation - and you'd probably be a bit unhappy, and less willing to donate in future, if you found out MSF spent your money on animal shelters.

Even if you donate to Givewell or similar, you're still expecting the money to be spent in line with the values they advertise (closer to MSF than the other three I named, but different).

So it's reasonable for someone to want a charity that broadly shares his values. Wanting to fund a nonprofit that produces web documentation, but not longshot startups, is a reasonable value to have.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#58

Post by as1mov »

CarelessExpert wrote: post #35
gambler wrote: post #6

>Are you willing to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year to keep MDN afloat? Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. >Create an independent entity like Fronteers, but then international, get members to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year, and use that money to fund MDN or its s…

> Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. Interestingly, this same sentiment is a huge part of why charitable giving runs into problems. A lot of people are willing to give, so long as they get to decide what is done with their funds. Of course, these same people have no i…

> I recognize that the charity is in a far better position to make that decision than I am.

At least in the case of Mozilla, they doesn't seem to posses this expertise. They have overgrown beyond what they are capable of, both in terms of people and projects they have acquired/started.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#59

Post by uluyol »

CarelessExpert wrote: post #35
gambler wrote: post #6

>Are you willing to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year to keep MDN afloat? Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. >Create an independent entity like Fronteers, but then international, get members to pay 50-100 euros/dollars per year, and use that money to fund MDN or its s…

> Yes, as long as there is a guarantee that my money will go towards actually paying people who update the documentation rather than CEO salary, degenerate activism or doomed web startups. Interestingly, this same sentiment is a huge part of why charitable giving runs into problems. A lot of people are willing to give, so long as they get to decide what is done with their funds. Of course, these same people have no i…

Agree 100%. The problem I have is that I want to know that donations are being used responsibly, but this is hard to gauge. Different types of organizations require different levels of organizational overhead, and this changes depending on the size of the organization.

It would be nice if there was a quick way for a charity to establish their trustworthiness. Currently, I focus on a few orgs that I do trust, and basically ignore the rest.

Re: I Love MDN, or the cult of the free in action

#60

Post by outime »

th0ma5 wrote: post #47
learc83 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>degenerate activism What is degenerate activism?

That's a kind of far right virtue signalling as far as I can tell. In my opinion, it is wild projection, but it seems to try to label any progressive ideal as regression.

I'm not OP but I think you're reading between the lines. I feel OP though - I'd donate to a cause if my money doesn't go towards political alignments of any kind. I'm tired of NGOs or similar entities taking stances over stuff I didn't ask for. I just want them to do one thing, who gave you permission to use my donation to do a completely different thing, even if well intentioned?
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